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07-12-2020, 09:31 AM - 2 Likes   #361
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
I don't agree, almost every single component of the K-5 has been improved in the K-3, and that's not tiny improvements (even more in K-3II: GPS!! + sensor shift resolution).

16 to 24 Mpxls
11 to 27 AF points
-3 AF sensibility
More FPS,
60 FPS video
No AA filter
Larger LCD screen
77 to 86000 points metering sensor
Faster processor
Dual card slot
USB-3
100000 to 200000 shutter actuations

We are 7 years after the original K-3, this is the largest gap between two models ever. I am sure Pentax could improve many many things to make K-3 and K-3II users happy without necessarely doubling the price of the K-3II. They are generally asking $100 more than previous generation.
The K-3 came on the market in 2013 for 1299.00€
Just including the yearly inflation the price now would be 1407.84€ which translates to 1570.84US$ (incl. VAT).


Last edited by MMVIII; 07-12-2020 at 10:43 AM.
07-12-2020, 10:30 AM - 1 Like   #362
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
I don't agree, almost every single component of the K-5 has been improved in the K-3, and that's not tiny improvements (even more in K-3II: GPS!! + sensor shift resolution).

16 to 24 Mpxls
11 to 27 AF points
-3 AF sensibility
More FPS,
60 FPS video
No AA filter
Larger LCD screen
77 to 86000 points metering sensor
Faster processor
Dual card slot
USB-3
100000 to 200000 shutter actuations

We are 7 years after the original K-3, this is the largest gap between two models ever. I am sure Pentax could improve many many things to make K-3 and K-3II users happy without necessarely doubling the price of the K-3II. They are generally asking $100 more than previous generation.
Yes, and it was by that time something to be expected to have. It is still that K-3 was in line with K-5. Yes. Vastly improved. But still many things were similar. Now, propably biggest change will actually be AF what we all have been waiting for, for example. And that is not a small thing. Because, what they had was dead end. It could not be developed any further.. That and all things, perhaps completely new chip which will actually help to clear buffer faster too?

BIG changes.

Not just updating faster chip on the same platform. Iím not saying that it was a small update, Iím not saying that K-3 was a bad camera. And yes, dual card slots are mandatory. That is actually 50i and 60i FPS for video and while it works that was actually just cosmetic update.

With all the respect, and I hope to be wrong, it is going to fetch higher price than K-3 did. I actually remember paying something like 1400Ä of my K-3, I was early adopter. So if it will be 1800 or so, it is not Ďthatí much more given it is very big overdue. It is not just Ďnormalí update. It is what has been playfully said Of this K-new. It is -New-
07-12-2020, 10:41 AM - 3 Likes   #363
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
I am sure Pentax could improve many many things to make K-3 and K-3II users happy ... They are generally asking $100 more than previous generation.
So, you think Ricoh should target existing customers ? That's a rapidly diminishing market (and future). And if we take into account that a lot of current users are in Pentax teritory for price reasons - there is no future at all this way (inflation, diminishing market [previous K user as target, DSLR's market as a whole]). If they are looking for a long term future - they should look outside the current user base. And if they want to earn some money in a small market - they must increase price (and offer something for this increase).

I'll somewhat paraphrase what others have said : Ricoh sees the future as a leader, even with the minumum resources given to Pentax. You can see it in the Pentax designed lenses and especially the latest the dfa*50 and the dfa*85 - that video with the 2 designers (the limited 21 and the dfa*85) was quiet revealing. The decision to move from "vey good" to "excellent" even at the cost of total redesign.

Even the second line (non *) of new lenses, mostly rebadged from other manufacturers seems to emphasize quality. No more DA-L or FA-J. Look at the "kit" lens of the K-1 and compare it to previous Pentax kit lenses.

And now it seems that "very good" is not good enough comes to the Knew. No - it won't be "$100 more than previous generation". Neither will it be for the upcoming K-1new.

I do hope Ricoh succeed with this strategy (even if I will have to wait for a used K-1new and not a new one) - better die trying then just bleed to death with mediocre pruducts.
07-13-2020, 09:00 AM - 6 Likes   #364
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
We are 7 years after the original K-3, this is the largest gap between two models ever. I am sure Pentax could improve many many things to make K-3 and K-3II users happy without necessarely doubling the price of the K-3II.
- K-3 was I think 1299 at release
- Inflation alone is over 10% increase so that is 1450 US in today's money
- K-7, K-5, K-3 were all essentially the same technology just improved in each generation K-new is, well, NEW. Designed from scratch without the constraints of legacy parts and code
- Ricoh misjudged (IMHO) the demand for a true high end APS-C camera when they released the KP. Their research will tell them what price the market will bear for a new flagship

- Pentax in 2013 was trying to walk a value line with good performance slightly below cost of the competition. That is certainly no longer true based on recent lens releases
- Competing 'flagship' APS-C cameras are significantly more expensive

I've no idea what the price will be and will not speculate but expecting it to be the same as the K-3II is I think ignoring reality. This is not 2013 and today's Pentax is not the same as it was then.

07-13-2020, 10:30 AM - 4 Likes   #365
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Thee are posts in several threads that suggest that the K-new cannot exceed sucn-and-such a price, because that would take it into FF territory. This line of thought implies that price is the only reason a buyer would not buy the K-1 instead of an APS-C body. This is definitely not the case. Not everybody needs the improved IQ (whatever that may be) of FF, and not everybody wants to carry the bigger body and heavier lenses, and not everybody especially cares that the FOV of a given lens is "not what it's supposed to be", as long as we can get a lens that will provide the FOV we need.
07-13-2020, 11:30 AM - 4 Likes   #366
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
Thee are posts in several threads that suggest that the K-new cannot exceed sucn-and-such a price, because that would take it into FF territory. This line of thought implies that price is the only reason a buyer would not buy the K-1 instead of an APS-C body. This is definitely not the case. Not everybody needs the improved IQ (whatever that may be) of FF, and not everybody wants to carry the bigger body and heavier lenses, and not everybody especially cares that the FOV of a given lens is "not what it's supposed to be", as long as we can get a lens that will provide the FOV we need.
"It's not what it's supposed to be" was always a lame argument in my mind. Honestly, every lens I buy sees use on both systems, and most of them I honestly don't care which it's used on. Even my DA 55-300 PLM and DA*50-250 that are not supposed to be full frame lenses.

"Supposed to be" is lame. "What can I do with it?" is the thing.

If your thought is "I'm not happy using an FF lens on an APS-c sensor"... give it try, you'll get over it real quick.

If 645 lenses were K-mount, I'd try those too on both FF and APS-c.

What the lens was designed for is irrelevant, if you like what it does.
07-13-2020, 12:05 PM - 1 Like   #367
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QuoteOriginally posted by bxf Quote
Thee are posts in several threads that suggest that the K-new cannot exceed sucn-and-such a price, because that would take it into FF territory. This line of thought implies that price is the only reason a buyer would not buy the K-1 instead of an APS-C body. This is definitely not the case. Not everybody needs the improved IQ (whatever that may be) of FF, and not everybody wants to carry the bigger body and heavier lenses, and not everybody especially cares that the FOV of a given lens is "not what it's supposed to be", as long as we can get a lens that will provide the FOV we need.
Also the price of the camera body does not make the price of the whole system. A K-new at $1500 or even $2000 plus a 55-300 PLM at $360 is a heck of a lot less money than the equivalent reach and capability on FF. If you can even get it, since the only thing Pentax makes in that range is the 150-450. That is a very good lens, but it doesn't focus like the PLM.
07-13-2020, 12:26 PM   #368
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
but it doesn't focus like the PLM.
Which also makes the prospect of the new aps-c lens -- DA* 16-50mm f/2.8 PLM -- extremely appealing!

07-13-2020, 12:29 PM   #369
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QuoteOriginally posted by ThorSanchez Quote
If you can even get it, since the only thing Pentax makes in that range is the 150-450. That is a very good lens, but it doesn't focus like the PLM.
Do we have someone with both lenses to confirm that?

Or some kind of test somewhere?
07-13-2020, 12:43 PM - 1 Like   #370
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Do we have someone with both lenses to confirm that?

Or some kind of test somewhere?

07-13-2020, 01:05 PM   #371
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QuoteOriginally posted by jatrax Quote
- K-7, K-5, K-3 were all essentially the same technology just improved in each generation K-new is, well, NEW. Designed from scratch without the constraints of legacy parts and code
As far as I remember, I didn't read anywhere that Knew will be totally new tech. In my opinion, it will be as new as k3 was in regard to k5. New sensor (26mp?), more af points (51 may be?), new USB, wifi, GPS (I hope), bigger viewfinder. As a hint, the body is the same size than the k3 while the D500 is a lot bigger than D7500. And In my opinion, if Pentax would like to release the most advanced APS-C with no compromise, it would have a flip screen. We will know in a few months...
07-13-2020, 01:13 PM   #372
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Do we have someone with both lenses to confirm that?

Or some kind of test somewhere?
I'll run it if someone gives me a 150-450.

---------- Post added 07-13-20 at 04:16 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
As far as I remember, I didn't read anywhere that Knew will be totally new tech. In my opinion, it will be as new as k3 was in regard to k5. New sensor (26mp?), more af points (51 may be?), new USB, wifi, GPS (I hope), bigger viewfinder. As a hint, the body is the same size than the k3 while the D500 is a lot bigger than D7500. And In my opinion, if Pentax would like to release the most advanced APS-C with no compromise, it would have a flip screen. We will know in a few months...
It can't be an incremental upgrade if they're going to charge almost $2000. It has to be a leap, or extremely few will pay that much, and APS-C K-mount will be a bad spot.


So I think (hope?) the simplest answer is that it's going to be expensive, and it's going to be a lot bigger jump than K-5 to K-3.
07-13-2020, 01:39 PM - 3 Likes   #373
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
As far as I remember, I didn't read anywhere that Knew will be totally new tech. In my opinion, it will be as new as k3 was in regard to k5. New sensor (26mp?), more af points (51 may be?), new USB, wifi, GPS (I hope), bigger viewfinder. As a hint, the body is the same size than the k3 while the D500 is a lot bigger than D7500. And In my opinion, if Pentax would like to release the most advanced APS-C with no compromise, it would have a flip screen. We will know in a few months...
I'm certainly glad you are couching everything with "In my opinion" because I think you are missing the mark by a wide margin. Might as well loosen up that wallet!
07-13-2020, 01:47 PM - 3 Likes   #374
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Do we have someone with both lenses to confirm that?

Or some kind of test somewhere?
I have the 150-450, and was able to test the 55-300 RE PLM; there's no comparison - the PLM feels instant.
I still prefer the D FA, well, it's a FF lens of course... and, particularly with the focus limiter, its AF is decent.
07-13-2020, 01:48 PM   #375
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QuoteOriginally posted by superdave Quote
it will be as new as k3 was in regard to k5. New sensor (26mp?), more af points (51 may be?), new USB, wifi, GPS (I hope), bigger viewfinder.
IMHO K-5 -> K-3 was not really any major change tech wise. The underlying architecture and coding were the same, just improved bits here and there. Same with the K-1 to some degree. Some of the limitations people complain about: AF, video, data buss speed are limited by the architecture they were using. Knew is a chance to move beyond the legacy tech they were using both hardware and software.
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