[FozzFoster]

Roughly similar to the difference between a 26 MP and a 24 MP sensor in "normal" APS-C land.

I agree that the difference in a finished picture would not be noticeable.
But in pixel peeping (where lots of photo 'flaws' are discussed) I can strikingly notice the difference between my 16MP K-5 and my 20MP K-S2(r.i.p). That's a 4MP difference.
Although I have not directly compared a 24 and a 26 MP pixel peep, I am nearly certain that I could notice a mid point difference (2MP difference) between my K-5 and K-S2.
I don't know though...

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Last edited by FozzFoster; 09-18-2020 at 08:04 AM.

[Serkevan]

I agree that the difference in a finished picture would not be noticeable.
But in pixel peeping (where lots of photo 'flaws' are discussed) I can strikingly notice the difference between my 16MP K-5 and my 20MP K-S2(r.i.p). That's a 4MP difference.
Although I have not directly compared a 24 and a 26 MP pixel peep, I am nearly certain that I could notice a mid point difference (2MP difference) between my K-5 and K-S2.
I don't know though...

Do you mean that the K-S2 shows less detail while pixel peeping? You have to take into account that at 100% view one file is more magnified than the other. The K-1 doesn't show more pixel-peeping detail than the K-7, for example. *Picture* detail, however, which is the only metric that matters IMHO, is a completely different story - the K-1 struts

[Mistral75]

Somewhere in this swamp of a thread, or elsewhere, I remember noting '21 September' would be an important date for the K-new.

Is it correct to assume that we can expect some important K-new news next week? Or am I confused?

May be your noting the first day of fall (the 22nd of September but Japanese time) being an important date for the KNEW is linked to the following tweet from Kimio Tanaka?

Fresh 'rumours' from Kimio Tanaka:

- name could be K-3 III
- announcement in early fall
- release in the middle of fall
- price likely to be a little higher than everyone's expectation.

Twitter

[FozzFoster]

Do you mean that the K-S2 shows less detail while pixel peeping?

My K-S2 generally shows more detail than my K-5. But that depends. I've noticed that on my K-S2 I see motion blur more easily, and I attributed it to increased resolution.

You have to take into account that at 100% view one file is more magnified than the other. The K-1 doesn't show more pixel-peeping detail than the K-7, for example.

A 14MP APS-C camera doesn't show more pixel peeping detail than a 36MP full frame?
I might be in over my head here.. I don't understand.

I've seen noticeable differences not only between my K-5 (16MP) and my K-S2 (20MP), but also between my Canon SX50 HS (12MP) and my Mom's Canon SX60 HS (16MP).
Not always for the better, but there are generally noticeable positive differences for 4 more MP.
And I'd have a hard time imagining that I could not discern a half-way point (2MP) as well.

To tie this back in, you claimed that the Canon APS-C sensor pixel area being ~9.4% smaller than the standard APS-C size is only about the difference of a 2MP jump.
I am claiming I could probably notice a 2MP difference, since I can notice a 4MP difference, I imagine I could notice a half way point.

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Last edited by FozzFoster; 09-18-2020 at 08:41 AM.

[reh321]

I don't really know much about anything so ima spill my beans and people can correct me, please.

When you cite the difference in APS-C sizes when comparing them to the size of 35mm sensor, it drowns out how much of a difference there really is... ya?

Pentax K-70 = 15.60mm X 23.50mm || Canon T6s = 14.90mm X 22.30mm

And let's compare a K-70 sensor pixel area: 15.28µm2 with a T6s sensor pixel area: 13.84µm2

-- this would equal to about a 9.4% difference - certainly noticeable, especially when pixel peeping.

Perhaps because I use zoom lenses - and zoom to the framing I want - I noticed no difference in 2015 when I switched from a 12mp Canon Rebel to a 16mp Pentax K-30.

[Spodeworld]

May be your noting the first day of fall (the 22nd of September but Japanese time) being an important date for the KNEW is linked to the following tweet from Kimio Tanaka?

First day of fall? Hmmm...the symbolism....the Fall of Pentax!

[reh321]

My K-S2 generally shows more detail than my K-5. But that depends. I've noticed that on my K-S2 I see motion blur more easily, and I attributed it to increased resolution.

I do have to use higher shutter speeds with digital cameras that I did when using film, and I believe that is a result of having more resolution - but I also have much more ISO available {I tended to us 25 ISO Kodachrome}, so that is a problem only in that I had to retrain the thinking I do in my pre-shooting preparation.

[reh321]

First day of fall? Hmmm...the symbolism....the Fall of Pentax!

In this case I would prefer to use the term "Autumn" - "Fall" is a word with several meanings, and "falling down" certainly does not apply.
The "K-3ii replacement" looks like a very impressive camera.

[Mike.P®]

The dislocated strut on my K-1's articulated screen didn't stop me using it for the rest of the trip. After repair, the body continues to be my main workhorse.

The lens (DFA24-70), which was mounted on the camera at the time of the drop, suffered do damage and is still going strong.

Likewise my K-1 and 150-450mm. Rolled off a shelf in a hide while I turned my back and dropped about 4ft I would guess.
Strut popped out of the K-1 and thanks to this forum I found out how to fix it myself, lens is still spot on.

[Serkevan]

My K-S2 generally shows more detail than my K-5. But that depends. I've noticed that on my K-S2 I see motion blur more easily, and I attributed it to increased resolution.



A 14MP APS-C camera doesn't show more pixel peeping detail than a 36MP full frame?
I might be in over my head here.. I don't understand.

I've seen noticeable differences not only between my K-5 (16MP) and my K-S2 (20MP), but also between my Canon SX50 HS (12MP) and my Mom's Canon SX60 HS (16MP).
Not always for the better, but there are generally noticeable positive differences for 4 more MP.
And I'd have a hard time imagining that I could not discern a half-way point (2MP) as well.

To tie this back in, you claimed that the Canon APS-C sensor pixel area being ~9.4% smaller than the standard APS-C size is only about the difference of a 2MP jump.
I am claiming I could probably notice a 2MP difference, since I can notice a 4MP difference, I imagine I could notice a half way point.

I think I know where the confusion comes from .
There are two things that matter (the elephant in the room is sensor tech level which is very important and really makes it difficult to compare across "generations")- pixel count and pixel area.

Higher pixel count of course increases detail captured, but there are a couple caveats:
-Keeping sensor size constant you will notice that detail captured is finer, but you will see more pixel-level errors because the pixels are much smaller and, for example, what was before a sub-pixel vibration is now enough to smear the image. Or CA that barely took two pixels now takes 4.
-Keeping pixel area constant (the example I put) you have more total detail but you need a larger sensor. In my example, the 100% view doesn't look sharper on the K-1. This train of thought will inevitable devolve into the e-word so I'll stop it here.

My point with the Fuji example was that the "pixel level" measures - DR, noise - won't change a lot with the small change in pixel area. Of course, you will see more detail because of the increased resolution. However, a 24 MP camera, be it Canon or Pentax, will record roughly the same detail.


In any case, pixel peeping is wrong

[reh321]

I think I know where the confusion comes from .
There are two things that matter (the elephant in the room is sensor tech level which is very important and really makes it difficult to compare across "generations")- pixel count and pixel area.

Higher pixel count of course increases detail captured, but there are a couple caveats:
-Keeping sensor size constant you will notice that detail captured is finer, but you will see more pixel-level errors because the pixels are much smaller and, for example, what was before a sub-pixel vibration is now enough to smear the image. .Or CA that barely took two pixels now takes 4.
-Keeping pixel area constant (the example I put) you have more total detail but you need a larger sensor. In my example, the 100% view doesn't look sharper on the K-1. This train of thought will inevitable devolve into the e-word so I'll stop it here.

My point with the Fuji example was that the "pixel level" measures - DR, noise - won't change a lot with the small change in pixel area. Of course, you will see more detail because of the increased resolution. However, a 24 MP camera, be it Canon or Pentax, will record roughly the same detail.

In any case, pixel peeping is wrong

I do not "pixel peek" in general, either, but I do sometimes enlarge an area to see if writing is readable.

More pixels does give us more us more opportunity to crop.

[Serkevan]

I do not "pixel peek" in general, either, but I do sometimes enlarge an area to see if writing is readable.

More pixels does give us more us more opportunity to crop.

Certainly so! And more enlarging room, of course. I'm very happy with the few A3 prints I got from the K-1 - The K-7 started showing its limits at A4 if you happened to crop the image a bit and it was a tad tortured in post.

[rawr]

May be your noting the first day of fall (the 22nd of September but Japanese time) being an important date for the KNEW is linked to the following tweet from Kimio Tanaka?

Aha. You are likely correct. Thank you.

[TDvN57]

Yeah, kind of hard to imagine with Astrotracer being such a core Pentax feature. But then it doesn't have that other feature either so who knows. No GPS means no purchase from me but that is just me. I rely on the GPS and would sacrifice a lot in order to keep it.

The fli..... screen thing reminds me of the battles discussion over the flash or GPS on the K-3II. A remarkably polarizing feature choice.

Sounds like the discussion when Apple dropped the headphone sockets....

[Serkevan]

Sounds like the discussion when Apple dropped the headphone sockets....

At least between flash and GPS you're deciding between two features.