[Parallax]

They did seem to go for the Coup De VIlles however, but hey, I'm really dating myself.

I'd call you an "old fart" but that would be evidence that I'm old enough to get the reference, so I won't do that.

[Serkevan]

Prefacing a post with "I don't mean to offend" is a clear indication that a person knows the post is going to be offensive to someone but is going to post anyway.
"I don't mean to offend" = "I don't care if I offend you"
(no offense intended)

No offense intended, but some times you say it because you know that anything will be taken as an offense by whom it's addressed to and the "disclaimer" is for the rest of the spectators

In any case, I have to go with Thor in this one. It's easy to ignore the positive (or, you know, dismiss cheerful optimism and interest as "neutral"), but for example:

- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/408441-pentax-dfa7...nt-public.html. In the first 4 pages there is one negative comment (and that's if you stretch a "please not focus by wire" as a negative).
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/408001-dfa-85mm-f-...s-website.html : In the first 4 pages there are... 5 or 6 negative comments plus the customary rebuttals. Everything else is the fabled "neutral" or outright drooling about the lens (or tangential discussions as is typical ).
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/408251-dfa-85mm-f-...order-b-h.html : In the entire 5 pages of discussion (let's say three before it all went into exchange rates, shipping costs and sales tax) there were two negative posts... and about a dozen replies in varied tones, including a couple of pretty snarky ones.
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/395136-now-availab...hoe-cover.html : First two pages (I got lazy, sorry ) there are about 10 variations around "not paying 50 bucks for a hotshoe that I'm gonna lose anyway".
- https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/16-pentax-news-rumors/401866-ten-more-lenses-pipeline.html : In the first six pages, the only thing I'd call "negative" is a word of caution saying that Asahiman isn't infallible and we shouldn't get too excited.

I'm tired and don't want to keep digging, but I think I've made my point; there is no endless sea of negativity unless people insist on looking exclusively at the odd negative post. It's true that deeper* in the threads there can be more heated up arguments, but before it reaches those points the vast majority of posts (and by extension, the posters) are supportive, typically excited about new gear (what is speculation if not excitement about the possibilities) and showing interest in Pentax products.

It isn't all doom and gloom, not by a long shot. And that's the "News and Rumors" section, which is by far, by orders of magnitude even, the worst. The forum at large is a cheerful place.


*this typically happens a bunch of pages after the original point has been lost forever because there's nothing else of substance to be said.

[robbiec]

Why beat about the bush? Oh I don't mean to offend, sometimes you will because they have annoyed you and you're posting in rebuttal. Bah, PC culture. Just disagree and then rip them apart in lyrical pose as best you can Added points if you get likes and escape a trip to the sin-bin.

[Parallax]

Maybe he just means to tell it like it is, but knows its a bitter pill to swallow.

So if you say to somebody "you're ugly" it's not disrespectful or insulting? It's just "telling it like it is"?
Sorry, but civility still has a place in this world. I'd like to think so, anyway, but I have to admit that I'm becoming more and more dubious every day.

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Last edited by Parallax; 06-10-2020 at 06:04 PM.

[Kunzite]

No offense intended, but some times you say it because you know that anything will be taken as an offense by whom it's addressed to and the "disclaimer" is for the rest of the spectators

Do I look that bad to you?

I'm tired and don't want to keep digging, but I think I've made my point; there is no endless sea of negativity unless people insist on looking exclusively at the odd negative post.

It would be nice if I'd only have to defend/support my point, for a change. Not a strawman. Where was I talking about an "endless sea of negativity" on Pentaxforums?
Hype and excitement, guys, hype and excitement. If you want to know the difference, look at Steve Irwin (RIP) talking about crocodiles. Then, at the RANT!!! video.

[Serkevan]

Do I look that bad to you?

Not really; I actually said because it's happened to me more than once.

It would be nice if I'd only have to defend/support my point, for a change. Not a strawman. Where was I talking about an "endless sea of negativity" on Pentaxforums?
Hype and excitement, guys, hype and excitement. If you want to know the difference, look at Steve Irwin (RIP) talking about crocodiles. Then, at the RANT!!! video.

That was mostly because of Norm's previous comments about all the negative posts "drowning people out". Little play on words .
My point is that there's excitement or at least I see a lot of people excited by the new announced lenses - even just the patent about the 70-300 SR has had a very positive response. Hype, yes, I agree that there isn't a lot of it but I choose to believe that it's beneath us, I also dislike it after being burned too many times in the world of videogames .

[volley]

So if you say to somebody "you're ugly" it's not disrespectful or insulting? It's just "telling it like it is"?
Sorry, but civility still has a place in this world. I'd like to think so, anyway, but I have to admit that I'm becoming more and more dubious every day.

One comment I have heard several times from American friends about their experience in Germany was how "shocked" they were about the very direct and straight forward communication.
Like when waiting in a car with the engine running, surely someone will tell that you should turn off the engine.
Or crossing a street on red light as a pedestrian, surely someone would tell you that you should give a better example for children.
It can even be very extreme: a German husband may even answer his wife's question "do you think I've gained some weight?" with "Ye, I think so" (that's what I've heard, not sure if the guy survived ...)

Most of my US friends understood after a while that this is not meant in a rude or disrespectful way. It is more like an honest opinion and you don't need "to beat around the bush".

One of the difficulties in international communication is the fact that it depends on the culture you grew up with if a sentence is perceived as "honest" or "rude".

I had to learn for example that you can't act like German when you want to do successful business in Japan ...

[Serkevan]

I had to learn for example that you can't act like German when you want to do successful business in Japan ...

I'm from Spain and work in Germany with (mostly) Chinese colleagues, I absolutely get the feeling. It took me a pretty long time to adjust (particularly, to the Chinese) how I said and listened to things to avoid misunderstandings. At the beginning, I spent months being baffled at no one understanding my very region-specific irony/sarcasm/double meaning, although considering people from the rest of Spain don't tend to get it either I just had to temper my expectations .

One of the most interesting things is how in China (I think Japan is very similar) it's considered impolite to openly deny a request, which has lead to:
-Germans being angry at a Chinese who didn't do something they said (if you took the conversation at face value) they would do.
-Chinese being offended by the Germans' massive lack of subtlety.
This is, of course, compounded by both parties using English to communicate. Then you have to add the Spaniard, the Italian and the rest of the "Nations' Bingo" that makes up our group. Luckily we are all scientists so we mostly keep to ourselves and don't get a lot of chances to be a walking faux pas


My (very limited) experience in the US has been generally pleasant although it has led me to think "please get to the point" more than once .

[robbiec]

You lot should come to Ireland the more you like someone the more you abuse them verbally. It's a sign of affection. I've sat in meetings where you can get ripped apart, it's nothing personal, can be quite effective. Also have sat in meetings where people pussy foot about and nothing gets through. I strive for a balance.

[Serkevan]

You lot should come to Ireland the more you like someone the more you abuse them verbally. It's a sign of affection. I've sat in meetings where you can get ripped apart, it's nothing personal, can be quite effective. Also have sat in meetings where people pussy foot about and nothing gets through. I strive for a balance.

Vulgarities are built into Spanish, I know the feeling... have had to edit many a few posts before hitting "submit" . Several friends have been to Ireland actually, consensus is "Dublin is very nice, cliffs of Moher are gorgeous, Guinness is great, but weather and green colour are exactly like Galicia, it barely felt like I was abroad"

[Kunzite]

You lot should come to Ireland the more you like someone the more you abuse them verbally. It's a sign of affection.

I've been to Ireland... people there probably hated my guts

[Rondec]

No offense intended, but some times you say it because you know that anything will be taken as an offense by whom it's addressed to and the "disclaimer" is for the rest of the spectators

In any case, I have to go with Thor in this one. It's easy to ignore the positive (or, you know, dismiss cheerful optimism and interest as "neutral"), but for example:

- PENTAX DFA70-300 SR patent public - PentaxForums.com. In the first 4 pages there is one negative comment (and that's if you stretch a "please not focus by wire" as a negative).
- DFA 85mm f/1.4 Now on Ricoh's Website - PentaxForums.com : In the first 4 pages there are... 5 or 6 negative comments plus the customary rebuttals. Everything else is the fabled "neutral" or outright drooling about the lens (or tangential discussions as is typical ).
- DFA 85mm f/1.4 Is now open for Preorder at B&H - PentaxForums.com : In the entire 5 pages of discussion (let's say three before it all went into exchange rates, shipping costs and sales tax) there were two negative posts... and about a dozen replies in varied tones, including a couple of pretty snarky ones.
- Now available in Europe: O-HC171 (Anniversary Hotshoe Cover) - PentaxForums.com : First two pages (I got lazy, sorry ) there are about 10 variations around "not paying 50 bucks for a hotshoe that I'm gonna lose anyway".
- Ten more lenses in the pipeline. - PentaxForums.com : In the first six pages, the only thing I'd call "negative" is a word of caution saying that Asahiman isn't infallible and we shouldn't get too excited.

I'm tired and don't want to keep digging, but I think I've made my point; there is no endless sea of negativity unless people insist on looking exclusively at the odd negative post. It's true that deeper* in the threads there can be more heated up arguments, but before it reaches those points the vast majority of posts (and by extension, the posters) are supportive, typically excited about new gear (what is speculation if not excitement about the possibilities) and showing interest in Pentax products.

It isn't all doom and gloom, not by a long shot. And that's the "News and Rumors" section, which is by far, by orders of magnitude even, the worst. The forum at large is a cheerful place.


*this typically happens a bunch of pages after the original point has been lost forever because there's nothing else of substance to be said.

I guess I would say that my experience is that threads often begin positive and then skew a bit more negative as time goes by, either because of lack of further information (the thread has run its course but remains open) or because people begin to focus on the one negative thing (price of the DFA *85 or the lack of a flippy screen on the K-new) and are never content to be satisfied with one comment describing their discouragement with that thing.

I do think this is a positive place in general or I wouldn't continue to be here, but this certainly isn't "Home on the Range." (focus here being on the discouraging word).

[ThorSanchez]

Prefacing a post with "I don't mean to offend" is a clear indication that a person knows the post is going to be offensive to someone but is going to post anyway.
"I don't mean to offend" = "I don't care if I offend you"
(no offense intended)

I should have said "you're going to take this badly, because you already disagree with me."

[Parallax]

I should have said "you're going to take this badly, because you already disagree with me."

The other option, of course, is to just not say things that you know will be taken badly.

[ThorSanchez]

No offense intended, but some times you say it because you know that anything will be taken as an offense by whom it's addressed to and the "disclaimer" is for the rest of the spectators

Yes, exactly that. I assumed that whatever I said was going to be taken negatively, and I was attempting to be civil and reasonable. I probably didn't accomplish my goal.

---------- Post added 06-11-20 at 10:05 AM ----------

The other option, of course, is to just not say things that you know will be taken badly.

I suppose that's true. But it's a little odd that the thing that started this whole bit was stating that I thought Pentax Forums was a huge positive endorsement of Pentax the brand. How have we gotten to the point where we need to walk around on eggshells about that?