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06-24-2020, 10:26 PM - 2 Likes   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I wonder which camera company is to bite the dust Next. Leica? Nikon?
Probably Pentax :P

In all seriousness, I'd put my money on Nikon. Pentax has been in lean mode for years now, plus if they live long enough, they may fill the DSLR niche left by Canikon.

06-24-2020, 10:35 PM - 1 Like   #62
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Unfortunate. I have one Olympus, a 35mm clamshell. Still have it, still use it....a bit. I bought it back in the '90's as a small, quality 35mm, because of it's sterling reputation and small size. I used it as a daily carry around during my work day and I also took it on my fly fishing jaunts. I would tuck it away in a pocket on my fly vest...to take pics of my catch of the day, before I released the fish back into the water...or some of the grand early morning views of lakes at 6 am. Makes me wonder, where did I put all those Olympus prints.

Initially I used a little 110 camera point and shoot that was in essence...lousy. The Olympus 35mm was fine, a small top notch camera that was easy to carry in a briefcase or a fly vest pocket.
06-24-2020, 11:26 PM - 3 Likes   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by MetalUndivided Quote
Probably Pentax :P

In all seriousness, I'd put my money on Nikon. Pentax has been in lean mode for years now, plus if they live long enough, they may fill the DSLR niche left by Canikon.
Pretty sly, isn't it? That 'niche' is still fifty percent, after all these years of predictions. Maybe some of it does come Pentax's way, mainly through older photographers.

Trying to court youngsters by ditching all DSLRs and going all-in on mirrorless? Why, isn't that what Olympus did?
06-24-2020, 11:39 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by pres589 Quote
How did you lose money using their products? Do the products still function as originally intended? What else do they owe you?
Well, you can 'lose' in a variety of ways. I guess the first is that you choose a camera based on future support, and so when that camera brand and lenses you bought cease to put out anything new (and you want new stuff) it means selling what you have and making a loss.
Secondly if you bought their stuff, shot with it, decided it was bad and thus sell it, that also is a loss.
I do hear what yer saying tho, that the camera you bought still works and functions, but with photography I tend to feel its a 'long game' play and you want to choose semi wisely to not have to sell on gear if possible.

06-24-2020, 11:57 PM - 1 Like   #65
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Daniel Loeb (the activist Sony investor) will wonder if he wants to stay on the sinking ship for much longer now.
The parallels between Samsung, Olympus and Sony are just too obvious.
06-24-2020, 11:58 PM   #66
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This is quite interesting however, it's made me think. Smartphones have no doubt caused a massive dent in the dslr market. How many of you have known of people who bought or received a dslr for xmas, only to realise its difficult and confusing af, use it a handful of times and give up and go back to their top tier flagship smartphone (that does it all for them), which they pay monthly for on a contract? I know at least 2-3 friends that fall into that category.

But we will always have a need and demand for proper photography. The Olympics and sporting events will not be covered by smartphones, ever. If someone is serious about their wedding and wants large prints, it's not ever happening from smartphones. Commercial photography, etc etc.

So then what? How do the dslr markets survive?

I think we're gonna see prices go up, across all brands, maybe it's even started with Pentax, they feel more expensive than they were in 2016. If you want professional photography... pay for it, pure and simple. Hobbyists and enthusiasts will suffer the most, they better have well paid jobs.

How else can it go? Are we seeing the death of affordable decent photography gear and ushering a new era of pricey stuff?

Thoughts?
06-25-2020, 12:50 AM - 8 Likes   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
This is quite interesting however, it's made me think. Smartphones have no doubt caused a massive dent in the dslr market. How many of you have known of people who bought or received a dslr for xmas, only to realise its difficult and confusing af, use it a handful of times and give up and go back to their top tier flagship smartphone (that does it all for them), which they pay monthly for on a contract? I know at least 2-3 friends that fall into that category.

But we will always have a need and demand for proper photography. The Olympics and sporting events will not be covered by smartphones, ever. If someone is serious about their wedding and wants large prints, it's not ever happening from smartphones. Commercial photography, etc etc.

So then what? How do the dslr markets survive?

I think we're gonna see prices go up, across all brands, maybe it's even started with Pentax, they feel more expensive than they were in 2016. If you want professional photography... pay for it, pure and simple. Hobbyists and enthusiasts will suffer the most, they better have well paid jobs.

How else can it go? Are we seeing the death of affordable decent photography gear and ushering a new era of pricey stuff?

Thoughts?
Let's give credit to the Ricoh executives. They saw all this coming, closed down plants and got the tax breaks from the writeoffs, killed advertising, pandering to bricks and mortar retail stores, and went to a trickle of quality, expensive releases. Nikon and Olympus both sell more cameras than little Pentax, but they can't make a profit.

You know what? It's almost as if those executives with all their data know better than us amateurs sitting on our keyboards or making YouTube videos, pretending we understand the camera business.

The last thing a big company should do in a crash is to pay for steering your company towards a completely new mount and lenses and expect growth to cover it. The Canon CEO said mirrorless proved to be a failure in that regard, for them, each MILC simply stole a sale from a DSLR, it did not grow the market or even arrest its slide.

With an activist investor, look out Sony. They know the profits are not there anymore, it's a crowded market, cameras have just been put into a separate structure that can be sold off.


Last edited by clackers; 06-25-2020 at 12:58 AM.
06-25-2020, 01:39 AM   #68
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Disappointingly, the prices haven't crashed on ebay yet - Wot?
06-25-2020, 01:49 AM - 3 Likes   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
The Canon CEO said mirrorless proved to be a failure in that regard, for them, each MILC simply stole a sale from a DSLR, it did not grow the market or even arrest its slide.

With an activist investor, look out Sony. They know the profits are not there anymore, it's a crowded market, cameras have just been put into a separate structure that can be sold off.
Totally agree - historically, Sony thrive on opening up markets, not competing in them - I suspect that's a large part of why Canon enetered the MILC market as they appear to be determined to resassert themselves (nearly) whatever the cost - then Sony will backpeddle hard on investment (evidenced already in the 9ii) and just keep ticking over, losing their fan base as they don't lead the market any more. Much as I dislike all the hype around Sony and their buying their way into the market, I hope they do continue to be a player, though, as they've definitely made contibutions to photography in the last fe years - including wakin Canon up
06-25-2020, 01:49 AM   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by 3by2 Quote
Disappointingly, the prices haven't crashed on ebay yet - Wot?
I'm not sure that's what happens, in fact the opposite can be true?
06-25-2020, 01:56 AM - 3 Likes   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
How else can it go? Are we seeing the death of affordable decent photography gear and ushering a new era of pricey stuff?
Ultimately that's up to consumers - but DSLRs were given a huge boost when everybody switched to digital - it was always more realistic to look at pre-digital sales levels for the actual core demand - cheap point and shoots filled the place of smart phones in those days.

I do think that there is a core demand, though - undoubtedly some of that will now be shared by MILCs, but there will always be people who want more than a smart phone can offer - if only to give them a competitive edge over smart phone users, like MF event photographers in the heyday of 35mm
06-25-2020, 02:18 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Ultimately that's up to consumers - but DSLRs were given a huge boost when everybody switched to digital - it was always more realistic to look at pre-digital sales levels for the actual core demand - cheap point and shoots filled the place of smart phones in those days.

I do think that there is a core demand, though - undoubtedly some of that will now be shared by MILCs, but there will always be people who want more than a smart phone can offer - if only to give them a competitive edge over smart phone users, like MF event photographers in the heyday of 35mm
Exactly this - film gave every cheap P&S a large sensor. My parents' Espio 115G made fairly competent pictures for putting on photo albums and was diminutive. In fact, the 5 MP Panasonic DMC-LS2 they bought in ~2006 was a downgrade in IQ, I'd say... although it's hard to tell whether that's the camera being actually worse or the fact that, by then, we were all looking at computer screens bigger than most prints we had made. The thing was that, until the first truly "good" compacts came along, the only way to get photos on par with a 35mm film P&S was to get a DSLR.

Now, with phones getting to more than enough quality to make decent enough pictures in good light to show on phone/tablet screens, the ILC gets relegated to the same market it had before.
06-25-2020, 02:40 AM - 1 Like   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by 3by2 Quote
Disappointingly, the prices haven't crashed on ebay yet - Wot?
Olympus isn't going to stop making gear tomorrow. In addition, they share a mount with Panasonic, which is still making micro four thirds cameras and lenses. There is no reason to think that folks and stores who sell this gear are just going to start dumping it. Of course, some will see the writing on the wall and move on, but many will wait things out to see if JIP is able to make things work and find a good long term owner of the company.

The hard thing is that Olympus had deep pockets due to their medical division and was willing to tolerate imaging losses that were pretty heavy over the last ten years. That sort of thing will be going away now and it will be more of a "pay as you go" attitude I am sure.
06-25-2020, 02:44 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by 3by2 Quote
I hope they survive, I've a soft spot for Olympus having owned the OM1, 2 and 10. If I didn't have a Pentax, I'd have an Olympus.
Yes I agree with you, Olympus is a classic brand like Pentax, a little bit different. I had a OM1n and a OM2sp in the film days and I used a OMD EM10ii for a while but found it too small. I would have liked a OMD EM1 but too expensive for my pocket.
06-25-2020, 02:51 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by 3by2 Quote
I hope they survive, I've a soft spot for Olympus having owned the OM1, 2 and 10. If I didn't have a Pentax, I'd have an Olympus.
I owned Olympus cameras before Pentax, they are great. Agree with you sentiment!
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