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06-17-2022, 08:02 AM   #541
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
We have been having a running discussion here.
My K-30 is seven years old and I say “My K-30 still works”,

but many members dispute that; they say it hasn’t worked in four years.
As I was one of those "many", I agree with your viewpoint:
Your K30 works with all lenses which have an aperture-ring and if used in M-Mode.

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
The issue is what does someone mean by “my K-30 still works”.
Others who just have the kit-lens and never learned how to use manual lenses with preset aperture of course

will correctly mean "my Pentax doesn't work anymore".

QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
Having had two Canon Rebels fail to work after having processor problems, I tend to take a more expansive view.
The shutter of my K-30 still works, and the processor still puts images into the SD card.
However, my K-30 can no longer control the aperture, so I use lenses which can do that.
Yes, for you and those who can use a Pentax like this it is so and far better than most failures of competition.


Often I even said, that people whose Pentax develop ABF are lucky because it can be repaired, in USA for around $ 120 including shipping costs
which is not my favourite but it does work and the guy in California gives 1 year warranty but often longer

Nevertheless, I guess that after some time almost if not almost all K30 and most pre 12/2015 K50's , K500's, K-S1's and K-S2's have a strong tendency to develop ABF, particular if not used for a longer time (which must be the owners right, we are not dealing with a petrol-2-stroke engines which need some special care if not used (over winter for example). We can compare it more with an electric circular saw, a vaccuum-cleaner or similar which if not used should work fine after month or years without any problem.

As you know, many SLR bodies with solenoid for aperture control and all DSLR pre K30 times never ever had that problem.

06-17-2022, 08:17 AM   #542
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QuoteOriginally posted by slartibartfast01 Quote
"PENTAX and RICOH products are manufactured using high quality components and assembled using state-of-the-art manufacturing processes. They are designed for many years of use and together with the uncomplicated operation, this guarantees our customers years of carefree photography."
So this claim brings everything to the point and by now I think they got it to that point with the K70 and its modified solenoid!
But we had 3 developing steps for this solenoid which is shown here:



from left to right:

a) Fake solenoid sold from China, Hongkong and Taiwan as Pentax solenoid but having the strongest magnet and thus
way too high holding force

b) 1.st generation as used in all K30's* and all pre-12/2015 K50/500/K-S1/K-S2

c) 2.nd generation = 1.st modification: Introduced 12/2015 and also used for quite some time in the K-70

d) 3.rd generation = 2.nd modification: Introduced because "some" (!) K-70's still developed ABF with the previous version.

*of course there can be repaired bodies with later versions!
06-17-2022, 08:18 AM   #543
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QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
As I was one of those "many", I agree with your viewpoint:
Your K30 works with all lenses which have an aperture-ring and if used in M-Mode.

Others who just have the kit-lens and never learned how to use manual lenses with preset aperture of course
will correctly mean "my Pentax doesn't work anymore".

Yes, for you and those who can use a Pentax like this it is so and far better than most failures of competition.

Often I even said, that people whose Pentax develop ABF are lucky because it can be repaired, in USA for around $ 120 including shipping costs
which is not my favourite but it does work and the guy in California gives 1 year warranty but often longer.
Which is why I would like to see Pentax develop an ‘affordable’ normal KAF4 lens.

Kitted with the {KAF4} 55-300mm PLM lens, ABF would become something for the history books,
even when used with K-50, K-S1. K-S2, and K-70 bodies built before the latest solenoid.

Last edited by reh321; 06-17-2022 at 08:27 AM.
06-18-2022, 12:06 PM   #544
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QuoteOriginally posted by reh321 Quote
We have been having a running discussion here.

My K-30 is seven years old and I say “My K-30 still works” , but many members dispute that; they say it hasn’t worked in four years.
The issue is what does someone mean by “my K-30 still works”.
Having had two Canon Rebels fail to work after having processor problems, I tend to take a more expansive view.
The shutter of my K-30 still works, and the processor still puts images into the SD card.
However, my K-30 can no longer control the aperture, so I use lenses which can do that.

Incidentally, no one ever claimed that no K-30 or no K-70 still works.
I am sure that some Rebel XT still works - the important thing to me is that mine is now in the dump.
I still use my K-30 on occasion, with old film lenses, but a KP is now my primary camera.
when I say it works I say it works. I can use it without any problem with all objectives. But if I have to say that it doesn't work because someone likes it, that's fine too.

---------- Post added 06-18-22 at 12:13 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
As I was one of those "many", I agree with your viewpoint:
Your K30 works with all lenses which have an aperture-ring and if used in M-Mode.


Others who just have the kit-lens and never learned how to use manual lenses with preset aperture of course

will correctly mean "my Pentax doesn't work anymore".


Yes, for you and those who can use a Pentax like this it is so and far better than most failures of competition.


Often I even said, that people whose Pentax develop ABF are lucky because it can be repaired, in USA for around $ 120 including shipping costs
which is not my favourite but it does work and the guy in California gives 1 year warranty but often longer

Nevertheless, I guess that after some time almost if not almost all K30 and most pre 12/2015 K50's , K500's, K-S1's and K-S2's have a strong tendency to develop ABF, particular if not used for a longer time (which must be the owners right, we are not dealing with a petrol-2-stroke engines which need some special care if not used (over winter for example). We can compare it more with an electric circular saw, a vaccuum-cleaner or similar which if not used should work fine after month or years without any problem.

As you know, many SLR bodies with solenoid for aperture control and all DSLR pre K30 times never ever had that problem.
You wrote various inaccurate things. I don't think you really know how it works in the forums in Italy, It is full of topics where people complain about the problems on K30 and K50. Also non pentax forum.Had there been some problem with the k70 it would have been written for sure, such as SDM engine problems, etc ..
As for the tests it goes without saying that ricoh will not provide any data but I have never seen anyone who has a repair invoice diagnosed by a photo repairer. No one has ever exhibited it, not even on the posts you indicated. Indeed there have been many many strange nicks.

Finally, not everyone has a four-year guarantee. It happens that many do not buy with an Italian guarantee, they prefer to save money, with only guarantee for two years. However, when one has a problem he writes it equally on the various forums and given that you say you know the Italian forums well, point me to some links for k70 problems.
As for me, I end up here. I am really tired of this solenoid thing. Buy other and live peacefully. You just seem boring to me or at least you have bored me enough. However if you look for me you will also find me in discussions. Just stop looking in the mirror.


Last edited by nonpigliounoshoot; 06-18-2022 at 12:34 PM.
06-18-2022, 12:49 PM   #545
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QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
As for me, I end up here. I am really tired of this solenoid thing. Buy other and live peacefully. You just seem boring to me or at least you have bored me enough. However if you look for me you will also find me in discussions. Just stop looking in the mirror.
So is Pentax. Look at photogem’s ‘history’.
They have made several changes in the solenoid, and may finally have it right again.
You may spend on any camera you want to.

I was using ‘other’ ten years ago, and then I had two real failures separated by about six hundred days.
As for me, I will just continue photographing with Pentax cameras.
06-19-2022, 02:48 AM - 1 Like   #546
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QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
when I say it works I say it works. I can use it without any problem with all objectives. But if I have to say that it doesn't work because someone likes it, that's fine too.

---------- Post added 06-18-22 at 12:13 PM ----------



You wrote various inaccurate things. I don't think you really know how it works in the forums in Italy, It is full of topics where people complain about the problems on K30 and K50. Also non pentax forum.Had there been some problem with the k70 it would have been written for sure, such as SDM engine problems, etc ..
As for the tests it goes without saying that ricoh will not provide any data but I have never seen anyone who has a repair invoice diagnosed by a photo repairer. No one has ever exhibited it, not even on the posts you indicated. Indeed there have been many many strange nicks.

Finally, not everyone has a four-year guarantee. It happens that many do not buy with an Italian guarantee, they prefer to save money, with only guarantee for two years. However, when one has a problem he writes it equally on the various forums and given that you say you know the Italian forums well, point me to some links for k70 problems.
As for me, I end up here. I am really tired of this solenoid thing. Buy other and live peacefully. You just seem boring to me or at least you have bored me enough. However if you look for me you will also find me in discussions. Just stop looking in the mirror.
It is allowed to be polite
06-19-2022, 11:45 AM - 1 Like   #547
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QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
You wrote various inaccurate things.
Really? Then better let me know, first I am curious and second I am quite happy to learn (are you?)

QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
I don't think you really know how it works in the forums in Italy
Well, you see, aside of good food, drinks and culture I am afraid that like you yourself I would have to use google translator in most cases.
But because I have some knowledge of the English and the French language, that is enough to me.

But... knowing how to compare I earnestly think that if no K-70's fail in Italy but they do in other countries, it must then be for some amazing mystical reasons, maybe it is Rome, St. Peter, who knows.

But maybe, just maybe just very little K-70's have been sold there or... maybe the fear it could happen again was too strong

QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
As for the tests it goes without saying that Ricoh will not provide any data but I have never seen anyone who has a repair invoice diagnosed by a photo repairer. No one has ever exhibited it, not even on the posts you indicated.
REALLY?
Just a few:
K70 Exposure Issue - PentaxForums.com
K70 took a SWAN dive - PentaxForums.com

moderator @SharkyCA had his repaired and even showed details of the invoice
?#1 k-70 aperture block, which repair service? - PentaxForums.com
Strange behaviour from my K-70...aperture block? - PentaxForums.com
?#1 k-70 aperture block, which repair service? - PentaxForums.com
K-70, aperture block solenoid, extended warranty, and Precision Camera - PentaxForums.com
New K-70 and Aperture Block - Page 5 - PentaxForums.com
New K-70 and Aperture Block - Page 6 - PentaxForums.com
K-70 Exposure issues - Page 5 - PentaxForums.com
K-70 Underexposed Photo Reports - Page 8 - PentaxForums.com
Tutorial/Repair Pentax K-70 with aperture-problem: Exchange solenoid - PentaxForums.com
Solenoid in Pentax K-70 - Page 3 - PentaxForums.com

QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
Indeed there have been many many strange nicks.
I think you have a serious problem by accusing members and their right and choice for their nickname/alias here!

QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
Finally, not everyone has a four-year guarantee.
Oh, but you brought it over that almost everybody has it.
Can you maybe make up your mind?
You wrote before:
"cameras and lenses purchased from the official importer have a 4 year warranty. It's not just for me it's true for everyone in Italy. Two-year dealer warranty applies to all products purchased in Europe, including a washing machine."

QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
It happens that many do not buy with an Italian guarantee, they prefer to save money, with only guarantee for two years.
So now you apply some "pixel-shift"?? Kind of "my arguments of yesterday don't count anymore!"
or:
"I was wrong but I won't admit" (which feels like a red line in all your answers to my posts)


QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
As for me, I end up here.

I am really tired of this solenoid thing. Buy other and live peacefully. You just seem boring to me or at least you have bored me enough. However if you look for me you will also find me in discussions. Just stop looking in the mirror.
There is an old saying:
"Tell me who you think you are and I will tell you who you aren't"


Last edited by photogem; 06-19-2022 at 10:02 PM.
06-19-2022, 02:00 PM   #548
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QuoteQuote:
But... knowing how to compare I earnestly think that if no K-70's fail in Italy but they do in other countries, it must then be for some amazing mystical reasons, maybe it is Rome, St. Peter, who knows.
:stufo:
San Pietro is not in Rome..

QuoteQuote:
Really? Then better let me know, first I am curious and second I am quite happy to learn (are you?)
I repeat myself
QuoteQuote:
I am really tired of this solenoid thing. Buy other and live peacefully. You just seem boring to me or at least you have bored me enough.

Last edited by nonpigliounoshoot; 06-19-2022 at 02:16 PM.
06-19-2022, 02:26 PM   #549
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QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
:stufo:
San Pietro is not in Rome..


Had to look it up. I would believe Saint Peter is in his tomb. The Tomb of St. Peter is located in the depths of St. Peter's Basilica in an area called the Vatican Necropolis. It is believed that after the death of St. Peter, he was buried on Vatican Hill, close to the site of his martyrdom. Visit St. Peter?s Tomb | An Underground Treasure

As to the semantic question of "working". My car lost ac in this hot weather so I had to push it to a mechanic. It is silly. we all understand. My car worked to drive. It didn't work to cool. It was not functioning at 100%, but functioned some %.
06-19-2022, 05:31 PM - 2 Likes   #550
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I am starting to wonder if this thread has run it's course.
06-19-2022, 06:23 PM - 1 Like   #551
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
I am starting to wonder if this thread has run it's course.
You’ll notice this is my first comment here in more than a day.
I’ve had my say, and I won’t repeat myself {unlike others}
06-20-2022, 02:23 AM - 1 Like   #552
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QuoteOriginally posted by MarkJerling Quote
I am starting to wonder if this thread has run it's course.
It seems likely, just like the lawsuit apparently has...
06-20-2022, 03:36 PM   #553
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I'm reminder of some clever lawyer who, when asked by his would-be client "Can I sue?" answered along these lines:
(And I'm paraphrasing because I can't find the original)

Of course you can sue. But, can you win? And if you win, can you collect judgement? And if you lose, can you afford costs?
06-25-2022, 12:30 AM - 1 Like   #554
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QuoteOriginally posted by nonpigliounoshoot Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by photogem Quote
But... knowing how to compare I earnestly think that if no K-70's fail in Italy but they do in other countries, it must then be for some amazing mystical reasons, maybe it is Rome, St. Peter, who knows.
San Pietro is not in Rome.
Better to read with some attention what I wrote.
And yet, of course St. Peter is in Rome: It is in Vatican City and V.C. is in Rome.
Maybe some would say it is above Rome but for different reasons.
Maybe one could write: St. Peter is "within" Rome but that's nitpicking.

Ah... some might claim, St. Peter is below Rome... as bones have been found 1950 "under the altar of the basilica San Pietro...
but we don't have bones from relatives to establish a DNA test... so here we are... it's in above hands or spirits....

Anyway:
I found 1 case of ABF with the K-70 mentioned in Amazon Italia plus 2 further ones, one by a French- the other by a Spanish buyer on Amazon Italia.
It is mentioned in Italian forums and here as well:
JuzaPhoto
but.... one can read very clearly very similar arguments there as you brought them over. Vehement denial!

By the way: If one purchases a Pentax K70 either via Amazan Italia or from an registered Pentax dealer in Italy, one gets the 4 year Fowa warranty automatically as one does get it if one buys a Zeiss lens (and other Zeiss equipment) And..... because Italian mentality often is about keeping things
very well ironed (stirato)... similar to the mentioned nuclear waste just deposited at the bottom on the sea... Fowa and Ricoh Italia extend this warranty.


So the one verified case on Amazon Italia is because the person sent it back right away. He didn't want it.

All the real cases in Italy: Stirato Liscio

So I counted the cases of verified K70 ABF mentioned in threads here in this forum were I myself participated:
Aside of the 12 already mentioned I found another 28 reports + 16 reports just in the tutorials I wrote for repairing defunct K70's

So we have 56 reports I found in this forum.
That is marginal compared to reports of the K30 and K50.

In Germany I know of 11 reports, compared to 227 reports of the K30/50
I myself have repaired about 100 K30/50/500/K-S1/K-S2s
but only 5 x K-70 (one was my own one)


But now we have the 2nd and well done modification of the China-Solenoid in the K70,
I am quite positive that the problem is solved.


Nevertheless, it happened and it did happen in dear Italy as well!

Last edited by photogem; 06-25-2022 at 12:45 AM.
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