[pepperberry farm]

just an update here:

Judge Throws Out Lawsuit That Claimed the Pentax K-50 Was Flawed | PetaPixel

[seventysixersfan]

just an update here:

Judge Throws Out Lawsuit That Claimed the Pentax K-50 Was Flawed | PetaPixel

Thanks for this update. I had a K-50 that also developed the aperture block problem. I was fortunately able to get it repaired for free out of warranty. But it was still a frustrating defect to have to deal with, and I know a lot of people have had to pay good money to have it fixed.

[Rondec]

just an update here:

Judge Throws Out Lawsuit That Claimed the Pentax K-50 Was Flawed | PetaPixel

Sounds like the judge didn't appreciate the expert opinion of a "post on the Pentax Forum" that was brought to bear on the subject.

Frankly I am shocked that that wouldn't be enough to settle the matter.

[reh321]

Sounds like the judge didn't appreciate the expert opinion of a "post on the Pentax Forum" that was brought to bear on the subject.

Frankly I am shocked that that wouldn't be enough to settle the matter.

The judge probably didn’t know, and the Pentax lawyers had no reason to add more confusion to the mix, but the plaintiffs also didn’t have their facts straight. Different cases will differ of course, but I have seldom seen a photo result that is totally dark. Most of the photos resulting from my K-30 are pushed to the dark - say 1/4th - side of the histogram ….. but there is still some light. Perhaps the body gets f/22 when it should have gotten f/5.6, but it does get some light. But as the judge said, Pentax never promised that it would work perfectly forever; that would have been a foolish promise for something that cost $3000, let alone under $1000.

[Rondec]

The judge probably didn’t know, and the Pentax lawyers had no reason to add more confusion to the mix, but the plaintiffs also didn’t have their facts straight. Different cases will differ of course, but I have seldom seen a photo result that is totally dark. Most of the photos resulting from my K-30 are pushed to the dark - say 1/4th - side of the histogram ….. but there is still some light. Perhaps the body gets f/22 when it should have gotten f/5.6, but it does get some light. But as the judge said, Pentax never promised that it would work perfectly forever; that would have been a foolish promise for something that cost $3000, let alone under $1000.

I think the issue is that no one has said for sure what the expected life span of the camera is. The warranty was for one year, which seems short to me, but this particular fellow's camera lasted four years.

My kids get toys at the dollar store sometimes. They typically break in a few day's time, which seems like a short time, but probably what is expected for that quality of product. I think a K-50 should last six or seven years with appropriate care, but if you didn't know about the aperture block issue, you wouldn't be surprised if a four year old camera, that was 500 dollars new, decided to get flaky on you.

Anyway, I think in these sorts of lawsuits, if most of the gear is lasting past the warranty period, it is hard to get a court to say that the company is selling a defective product.

[reh321]

I think the issue is that no one has said for sure what the expected life span of the camera is. The warranty was for one year, which seems short to me, but this particular fellow's camera lasted four years.

My kids get toys at the dollar store sometimes. They typically break in a few day's time, which seems like a short time, but probably what is expected for that quality of product. I think a K-50 should last six or seven years with appropriate care, but if you didn't know about the aperture block issue, you wouldn't be surprised if a four year old camera, that was 500 dollars new, decided to get flaky on you.

Anyway, I think in these sorts of lawsuits, if most of the gear is lasting past the warranty period, it is hard to get a court to say that the company is selling a defective product.

My two Canon Rebels lasted a total of 7-1/2 years, then became unusable from likely processor problems. I was disappointed, so I switched back to Pentax. My K-30 then lasted 3 years before the “Dark Image Syndrome” became permanent. I now use it with old film lenses that allow me to set the aperture at the lens. I did get a KP after I’d had the K-30 for 3-1/2 years, but I didn’t need to. In any case, running to the courts was never in my thoughts. Possibly shorter lifetime is part of the deal if you spend less up-front.

[biz-engineer]

Anyway, I think in these sorts of lawsuits, if most of the gear is lasting past the warranty period, it is hard to get a court to say that the company is selling a defective product.

The company wins legally, but loses on customer lifetime value , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_lifetime_value , .e.g customers go to Fuji and never come back.

[nonpigliounoshoot]

The company wins legally, but loses on customer lifetime value , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_lifetime_value , .e.g customers go to Fuji and never come back.

Not everybody. I had the problem on a k30 that appeared after several years. I bought a k70 and then a k1. (I put a stylus adapter on the k30 (15 euro) and it still works today after almost ten years, 80,000 shots without any problems). For an object paid for around 300 euros (used) I can still be satisfied. I understand that this is not the case for everyone, but other brands have also had their problems. Nobody's perfect. However, a different help from Pentax would certainly have helped the trust relationship on the part of many users.

[Not a Number]

Note: Since this is not an official announcement by Ricoh nor any rumor or news of new products or technology from Pentax/Ricoh this thread is moved to the Photographic Industry section.

[Not a Number]

But as the judge said, Pentax never promised that it would work perfectly forever; that would have been a foolish promise for something that cost $3000, let alone under $1000.

Then there is a famous sales slogan: "A diamond is forever".

[Rondec]

The company wins legally, but loses on customer lifetime value , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Customer_lifetime_value , .e.g customers go to Fuji and never come back.

I suppose.

I think the challenge for all companies is dealing with the "cheap camera" segment. Having handled a Canon Tx and Nikon 3x00 cameras, I can't imagine that they are lasting more than four or five years on average.

Most camera brands aren't selling many cameras for 500 dollars. What Fuji with kit lens will you get for 550?

[biz-engineer]

I had the problem on a k30 that appeared after several years.

Depends how much you're shooting. What if your K30 failed after 18 months, 20 000 clicks, just after the warranty period expired?

---------- Post added 16-06-22 at 18:33 ----------

I think the challenge for all companies is dealing with the "cheap camera" segment.

Of course, it's hard to make low cost cameras more durable and even harder to cope with the cost of repairs. What I'd like to point at here is the "how" Ricoh deal with customer issues. It would be better if Ricoh had a "problem solving" attitude towards the aperture block failure as opposed to denying the issue and letting customers open class actions suits. Just having "class action suit Pentax" article published in the specialized photography channels (internet), is not helping Pentax brand image. Imagine you are in the market for a camera and one of Pentax models is within your short list, then you look-up "Pentax issues" on the internet and you find a bunch of articles about aperture block failures, will you still consider buying a Pentax camera? Maybe not.

[slartibartfast01]

Anyway, I think in these sorts of lawsuits, if most of the gear is lasting past the warranty period, it is hard to get a court to say that the company is selling a defective product.

Did the Judge appreciate that the same mechanism had been used for years without any issues until a change to the solenoid took place? Also Pentax used the new part for quite a while in the flash mechanism of some cameras before using it for the aperture block. That sounds like they weren't sure about it so used the less important flash mechanism to test it. When nobody complained about it they started to use it in the aperture block.
I suppose the real culprit here is the manufacturer of the solenoid. Did the original manufacturer move production to a factory in China or was a different manufacturer involved? I forget the history.
If any company's products all failed just outside the warranty period that wouldn't be a good look but the Judge appears to think that is acceptable. I suppose in this case the camera could fail without even being used. I wonder if anyone ever received a new k-30 that had been sitting in a warehouse for months that failed to work from day one

[nonpigliounoshoot]

Depends how much you're shooting. What if your K30 failed after 18 months, 20 000 clicks, just after the warranty period expired?[COLOR=Silver]

---------- Post added 16-06-22 at 18:33 ----------

I had already written what I did, and I would have done the same if it had happened before, that is to buy a battery adapter. Like me others have and the cameras still work. There are other alternatives that don't cost much to replace the solenoid, and many have done it on their own or for less than $ 100. It seems to me that you want to enlarge the problem to practical effects. I repeat: Pentax should have acted differently, but this solenoid thing has gotten really boring, just a way to parrot a bad poem. for information in Italy the official warranty is 4 years, two years products purchased in Europe. My k70 is still under warranty until christmas from 2018 when I bought new for 499 euros. which fuji do you buy with this money?

[slartibartfast01]

I had already written what I did, and I would have done the same if it had happened before, that is to buy a battery adapter. Like me others have and the cameras still work. There are other alternatives that don't cost much to replace the solenoid, and many have done it on their own or for less than $ 100. It seems to me that you want to enlarge the problem to practical effects. I repeat: Pentax should have acted differently, but this solenoid thing has gotten really boring, just a way to parrot a bad poem. for information in Italy the official warranty is 4 years, two years products purchased in Europe. My k70 is still under warranty until christmas from 2018 when I bought new for 499 euros. which fuji do you buy with this money?

I always understood warranties in EU countries were 2 years, how did you get 4 years in Italy?