Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
10-21-2020, 02:42 AM - 1 Like   #46
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 22,563
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
With respect, I didn't suggest that... what I said was, "folks replying in this thread probably didn't realise which forum it was posted in". I made that assumption based on the fact that I myself hadn't noticed it was in the video forum. Most folks, I'd imagine, just look at the thread titles on the home page or in "Today's threads". That's what I tend to do...

I've asked the mods if they feel the thread should be moved, but obviously it's their decision, not mine

EDIT: ... and easy as that, the thread has been moved. Thank you, moderators!
Yay!

I feel better already...

10-21-2020, 02:52 AM - 1 Like   #47
Pentaxian
Lord Lucan's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: South Wales
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,012
QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Mike, count me in with those who didn't realize the subforum it was in
Me neither. I sometimes click on the "New Posts" figure at the top right and then click on any titles that look interesting. The titles are big and bold on the left of the screen and the subforum they belong to is in a small font over on the right. Whether I join the discussion or not, I am rarely aware of the name of the subforum unless I am starting a new thread myself.
10-21-2020, 09:08 AM   #48
retired sw engineer
Loyal Site Supporter
reh321's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Bend, IN, USA
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,422
QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
Me neither. I sometimes click on the "New Posts" figure at the top right and then click on any titles that look interesting. The titles are big and bold on the left of the screen and the subforum they belong to is in a small font over on the right. Whether I join the discussion or not, I am rarely aware of the name of the subforum unless I am starting a new thread myself.
The purpose of this thread is stated by the OP: should Pentax do a better job of video to sell more cameras or cameras at a higher markup? A simple question.
The answer is also simple: No.
In order to do better, they have already stated an inspiration to move up-market.

In order to move upmarket, they need to improve the cameras they already manufacture, which to me means to produce better quality {probably by eliminating that troublesome solenoid} and better features {like viewfinder on the "K-3ii replacement"}.
10-21-2020, 10:46 AM   #49
Pentaxian




Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 7,641
Video has never been that important to me. I am primarily a stills photographer. I try it out on my cameras to make sure it works, but that's it.
We use video, when taking movies of our family, but we use my wife's Apple cell phone, which does a great job and is always at hand, unlike my dslr's.

Video captures the spontaneous....my K1 portraits....and for portraits ......I take my time. Different equipment for different purposes. I say that Pentax has the right design priorities....focus on the camera's stills ability and features....but provide an ok system for videos in their dslr line.

10-27-2020, 12:29 PM   #50
Pentaxian
PiDicus Rex's Avatar

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,277
Well, thankfully they've finally listened to one feature needed, and the K-3iii has 4K.

Now lets wait for the whining to grind up louder over that.
10-27-2020, 01:04 PM   #51
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North-East of England
Posts: 15,491
QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Well, thankfully they've finally listened to one feature needed, and the K-3iii has 4K.

Now lets wait for the whining to grind up louder over that.
I can't see why anyone would "whine" about that 4k probably comes almost "as standard" with the new sensor and requires little extra in the way of development - so there's no reason why Ricoh shouldn't make use of it.

Whilst video isn't my thing, I'm genuinely pleased those folks who are interested in video will be seeing at least some improvement... though I seriously doubt it'll be enough to keep many of 'em happy
10-27-2020, 02:25 PM   #52
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Baltimore
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,705
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I can't see why anyone would "whine" about that 4k probably comes almost "as standard" with the new sensor and requires little extra in the way of development - so there's no reason why Ricoh shouldn't make use of it.

Whilst video isn't my thing, I'm genuinely pleased those folks who are interested in video will be seeing at least some improvement... though I seriously doubt it'll be enough to keep many of 'em happy
4K is getting to be the standard, now, but to make decent video at the capture stage there are more important things, so I'm waiting to see about the whole implementation and the touch screen UI for video.
10-28-2020, 04:05 AM   #53
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
BigMackCam's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North-East of England
Posts: 15,491
QuoteOriginally posted by PiDicus Rex Quote
Well, thankfully they've finally listened to one feature needed, and the K-3iii has 4K.
QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
4K is getting to be the standard, now, but to make decent video at the capture stage there are more important things, so I'm waiting to see about the whole implementation and the touch screen UI for video.
I truly hope for you video chaps that the improvements and implementation are "good enough" for you to find it usable and useful. I guess I'm just resigned to the prospect that whatever Ricoh has done with video in the new camera, it's not going to be competitive with your other options. Stills photography, almost certainly; video, much less so. I'm setting my expectations accordingly, but I'll be interested to see what you folks make of it compared to the K-3 and K-3II...

10-28-2020, 08:27 AM   #54
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Baltimore
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,705
QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
I truly hope for you video chaps that the improvements and implementation are "good enough" for you to find it usable and useful.
Me, too! But remember, "good enough" also includes all the expense (monetarily and mentally) of having a separate, different manufacturer's camera and lenses. If this camera can produce good video, and the interface is decent, then I think it might work well for me--I might only need one lens for it to add to all my others. The biggest ding I can see so far is the 25 minute limit, but other cameras have their limits as well. Mostly those time limits aren't a big deal---most shots I do are just a few minutes or less, and then all the shots are edited together. It's the interviews and lectures that are the problem in that regard. So, we'll wait and see.
10-28-2020, 12:45 PM   #55
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 223
I'm personally cautiously optimistic now that the K-3/3 has 4K.
A lot of professionals that love the Pentax ecosystem definitely see video potential:
- High ISO performance
- some of the best IBIS
- Rugged weathersealed bodies and lenses
- High quality lightweight glass, that can easily be declicked

The PDAF points should already be there since Sony explicitly states on their product manual that the sensor is a standardized product and not customizable. I don't need perfect deep learning trained AF - I understand how expensive it would be to hire coders to develop the machine learning for something like that. But if it comes with a decent codec/bitrate/HDMI out, it would truly be lovely for pros that need decent video output.
10-29-2020, 07:54 AM   #56
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Baltimore
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,705
QuoteOriginally posted by someasiancameraguy Quote
I'm personally cautiously optimistic now that the K-3/3 has 4K.
A lot of professionals that love the Pentax ecosystem definitely see video potential:
- High ISO performance
- some of the best IBIS
- Rugged weathersealed bodies and lenses
- High quality lightweight glass, that can easily be declicked

The PDAF points should already be there since Sony explicitly states on their product manual that the sensor is a standardized product and not customizable. I don't need perfect deep learning trained AF - I understand how expensive it would be to hire coders to develop the machine learning for something like that. But if it comes with a decent codec/bitrate/HDMI out, it would truly be lovely for pros that need decent video output.
Yeah, this is how I see it. And for us and what we're doing, really solid 1080 would actually work very well.
11-01-2020, 07:12 PM   #57
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 674
QuoteOriginally posted by someasiancameraguy Quote
I'm personally cautiously optimistic now that the K-3/3 has 4K.
I think Pentax has a lot more work to do in video besides adding higher resolution output. Even their 1080p30/60 output on existing cameras is not very clean. I am not sure how they are doing it but it lacks a lot of clarity compared to other similar DSLRs. The dynamic range seems to be weirdly compressed as well. I believe it has something to do with the algorithm they are using to translate sensor output into video, not just the physical capabilities of their sensor, because the corresponding still quality is much higher.

I think they could make a huge improvement just on this software front, and I hope for those that use video that Ricoh well make these improvements for them. Also, video focus peaking would be quite helpful as well (not sure if the latest cameras have that or not).
11-01-2020, 09:02 PM - 2 Likes   #58
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 223
QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
I think Pentax has a lot more work to do in video besides adding higher resolution output. Even their 1080p30/60 output on existing cameras is not very clean. I am not sure how they are doing it but it lacks a lot of clarity compared to other similar DSLRs. The dynamic range seems to be weirdly compressed as well. I believe it has something to do with the algorithm they are using to translate sensor output into video, not just the physical capabilities of their sensor, because the corresponding still quality is much higher.

I think they could make a huge improvement just on this software front, and I hope for those that use video that Ricoh well make these improvements for them. Also, video focus peaking would be quite helpful as well (not sure if the latest cameras have that or not).
The latest Pentax cameras do have focus peaking, but the functionality is lost the moment a recording starts. So at it's current state peaking can only be used as a prefocus to get the scene right or as a tool to help focus pullers mark the pull distance between transitions before the scene starts.

As to poor video quality, that mostly comes down to compression. To be brief, compression methods comes down to two factors, compression size and data preserved. As bitrate (hence size) increases, more data is captured. The whole reason why there is so much debate around bitrates and codecs is because codecs are not directly comparable to one another. You could use a 200mbps bitrate with one codec (such as H.264) and still have less detail than another 100mbps codec (H.265). H.265 in this sense will be more optimized - by packing a lot of information in highly compressed files - but come with a downside in that it increases the computational difficulty for the editing computer. Camera manufacturers try to strike a balance between file size, image quality, and ease of editing. Considering that Ricoh has a line of video products in the Theta, there is definitely a team capable of implementing excellent software for the Pentax.
11-02-2020, 10:20 AM   #59
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Ontario, Canada
Photos: Albums
Posts: 674
QuoteOriginally posted by someasiancameraguy Quote
As to poor video quality, that mostly comes down to compression. To be brief, compression methods comes down to two factors, compression size and data preserved. As bitrate (hence size) increases, more data is captured. The whole reason why there is so much debate around bitrates and codecs is because codecs are not directly comparable to one another. You could use a 200mbps bitrate with one codec (such as H.264) and still have less detail than another 100mbps codec (H.265). H.265 in this sense will be more optimized - by packing a lot of information in highly compressed files - but come with a downside in that it increases the computational difficulty for the editing computer. Camera manufacturers try to strike a balance between file size, image quality, and ease of editing. Considering that Ricoh has a line of video products in the Theta, there is definitely a team capable of implementing excellent software for the Pentax.
Ah that makes sense. Now that I think about it, the video does look like a highly compressed JPEG in some ways!
11-04-2020, 02:32 AM   #60
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 223
It's also good to keep in mind that the Ricoh GR III has decently implemented OSPDAF, face detection, and subject tracking. Not class leading or even great by any means, just that it's not a big leap of the imagination to see some of that software be improved and ported over to the DSLR lineup especially when the interface on the GR III has many Pentax elements.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
4k, bitrate, camcorder, camera, cameras, cards, data, focus, frame, hdmi, hdslr, ibis, ilc, market, pentax, pentax focus, photo industry, photography, rate, reducer, resources, usd, video
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pentax Medium Format Resources: 645 & 6x7 Cameras and Lenses, 645 & 6x7 Accessories Adam Pentax Medium Format 9 02-12-2017 03:38 AM
K-S2 Imaging Resources Sample shots posted - Imaging Resources dyoon153 Pentax K-S1 & K-S2 6 03-31-2015 12:00 PM
For Sale - Sold: 2 18-55mm kit lenses ("L" and "AL II" version) dgaies Sold Items 5 12-28-2009 07:58 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:06 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top