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09-18-2020, 01:10 PM - 3 Likes   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
The sales of Pentax-branded equipment are a minor part of Ricoh Imaging's revenue, which amounted to ¥18.3bn during the fiscal year ended on the 31st of March, 2019 (most recent data available). ¥18.3bn then, that's $165m for the whole Ricoh Imaging.

Remember that the average FOB price of DSLRs shipped in 2019 was ¥38,765 i.e. around $355. Even if the average FOB price of Pentax DSLRs were higher than the one of Canon and Nikon cameras, it wouldn't reach $1,000. By far.
Yeah $1000 was just a number pulled out of the air. Even if it's 1/3rd that, we are still talking about the size of a business that if operated lean and efficiently can stay profitable and keep folks employed and products rolling out to customers. Not every operation needs to achieve world domination to be successful and not every niche product has to be a luxury boutique item. My secondary hobby is amateur radio which has a drastically smaller market than photography but still produces quality and definitely niche but utilitarian electronic hardware which often stays in use for decades (very slow product replacement cycles).

09-18-2020, 02:04 PM - 1 Like   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
I love Pentax, but it makes you wonder why they bother, and how they make it pay. Less than 1% of Canon sales.
Depends on what expenses are.
09-18-2020, 02:57 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by vector Quote
My secondary hobby is amateur radio which has a drastically smaller market than photography but still produces quality and definitely niche but utilitarian electronic hardware which often stays in use for decades (very slow product replacement cycles).
Even so, they still manage to come up with beauties like this.



A lot more buttons than your average DSLR. At least one doesn't have to pass a test to get a license to operate a DSLR!
09-18-2020, 03:04 PM - 2 Likes   #34
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Before buying my first DSLR 9 years ago (the K5) I spent many months researching the options. Which system to buy into? Canon didn't appeal, but I nearly jumped at Nikon (D90) and Sony Alpha. At that stage, Pentax was a minor though still visible player. When the K5 was released, with all the advantages of the K7 but much better high-ISO performance, I bought in. At that stage I had no investment in any system, and Pentax seemed to be there or there abouts in capability.

These days, there has been a rush of mirrorless releases from the Big Boyz that pushes the technology forward at a dizzying rate. The 2019 sales figures make it clear that Pentax has no hope of competing in that pool. The decision to focus entirely on DSLR was not a decision at all, it was forced. They simply could not afford the development costs of a competitive mirrorless camera and lenses. All the talk of the superior experience of OVF is a justification after the fact, even if they believe it themselves (and if we buy it too).

So that's where we are. Pentax cannot run fast enough to keep up with the pack, so it opts to remain in a more sedate race (DSLR). It may well have it completely to itself within a few years. I am still going along with them. But I struggle to see that there is a future in it.

And yet their lenses (old and new) are still up there with the best! I guess that is what keeps most of us coming back for more.

09-18-2020, 03:19 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
Even so, they still manage to come up with beauties like this.
That's come a long way from the first modest ham radio kit I had in my teens -- a Johnson Viking Ranger tx and a Realistic DX-150A rx. CW only. Still, I managed to connect with the world, and I had a lot of fun.

That's sort of like my photography hobby -- I enjoy using my Pentax gear and have lots of fun, even if my five-year old camera (K-3 II) is from an earlier generation.

- Craig
09-18-2020, 03:21 PM - 3 Likes   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by vector Quote
My secondary hobby is amateur radio which has a drastically smaller market than photography but still produces quality and definitely niche but utilitarian electronic hardware which often stays in use for decades (very slow product replacement cycles).
QuoteOriginally posted by Wasp Quote
Even so, they still manage to come up with beauties like this.

A lot more buttons than your average DSLR. At least one doesn't have to pass a test to get a license to operate a DSLR!
Amateur radio is an occasional pastime of mine too... but, as with a lot of modern photographic equipment, the latest gear leaves me increasingly cold Too many features, screens, menus, etc. My first radio, the "one that got away", that I sold for newer, more advanced gear and later regretted it, was a Kenwood TS-520S... a K10D of radios, if you will

Apologies for reminiscing...
Attached Images
 
09-18-2020, 04:04 PM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Amateur radio is an occasional pastime of mine too... but, as with a lot of modern photographic equipment, the latest gear leaves me increasingly cold Too many features, screens, menus, etc. My first radio, the "one that got away", that I sold for newer, more advanced gear and later regretted it, was a Kenwood TS-520S... a K10D of radios, if you will

Apologies for reminiscing...
I've got an amateur radio in the cellar that belonged to my great grandfather. One day I'd like to restore it... Not entirely sure if it's 40s or pre-war. Little tube amp and everything, headphones are also still there
Not sure if I'll ever be electrically skilled enough to take on the task though.

09-18-2020, 05:17 PM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Topsy Quote
Not sure if I'll ever be electrically skilled enough to take on the task though.
Question maybe not only in skills but in components available, While this is completely out of topic I still cannot resist the temptation to tell the story. Computer museum in Santa Clara has one exposition with elements of fist USA defense computer system (name is Sage as far as I remember). It was top of the art in 50th, fully redundant and build on vacuum tubes (~ 60000 of them). It supposed to guard the country against Soviet Nuclear Bombers. As any defense system it outlived its time and stayed on the duty till 80th. The problem was that last several years there were never to buy vacuum tube for maintenance replacement: USA industry (actually whole West industry as well) did not produce needed tubes in big volumes. So there was special spy operation to buy (through Radio Shack) tubes form the Soviet block countries (I think it was Bulgaria).
09-18-2020, 08:55 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by BigMackCam Quote
Amateur radio is an occasional pastime of mine too... but, as with a lot of modern photographic equipment, the latest gear leaves me increasingly cold Too many features, screens, menus, etc. My first radio, the "one that got away", that I sold for newer, more advanced gear and later regretted it, was a Kenwood TS-520S... a K10D of radios, if you will

Apologies for reminiscing...
Appear to be a lot of us here.

My current rig is an Icom 745 - from the early 80s! My first rig was a DX40 and a 20-year old Hallicrafters receiver that my Dad had from ~WWII.

73,

de W8MIF (ex K3NXO, ZF2AZ)
09-19-2020, 01:10 AM   #40
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Kenwood was very much for HiFi what is Pentax for DSLR. I love my Kenwood HiFi (Basic Pre and Power amp with the in famous Sigma drive [unused], KX1100HX). It's like using G&L guitars instead of Fender. Leo nailed it with G&L.
09-19-2020, 01:34 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
Before buying my first DSLR 9 years ago (the K5) I spent many months researching the options. Which system to buy into? Canon didn't appeal, but I nearly jumped at Nikon (D90) and Sony Alpha. At that stage, Pentax was a minor though still visible player. When the K5 was released, with all the advantages of the K7 but much better high-ISO performance, I bought in. At that stage I had no investment in any system, and Pentax seemed to be there or there abouts in capability.

These days, there has been a rush of mirrorless releases from the Big Boyz that pushes the technology forward at a dizzying rate. The 2019 sales figures make it clear that Pentax has no hope of competing in that pool. The decision to focus entirely on DSLR was not a decision at all, it was forced. They simply could not afford the development costs of a competitive mirrorless camera and lenses. All the talk of the superior experience of OVF is a justification after the fact, even if they believe it themselves (and if we buy it too).

So that's where we are. Pentax cannot run fast enough to keep up with the pack, so it opts to remain in a more sedate race (DSLR). It may well have it completely to itself within a few years. I am still going along with them. But I struggle to see that there is a future in it.

And yet their lenses (old and new) are still up there with the best! I guess that is what keeps most of us coming back for more.
Sure, I tend to agree with you. Now there is a need to focus on DSLR only. But I think that they can be successful with this strategy whatever the world "successful" means. I am convinced that they will survive and that is enough for me.


Ricoh slowly innovates Pentax lenses - but when they prepare them, they are good. APS-C shooters will have a new DA* 16-50/2,8, maybe a new DA* 50-135/2,8, alltogether with DA* 11-18/2,8 ... I think that they will be ready for serious shooting for the next 10 years again, especially with the K-new. The only Pentax lens I really miss is a small(ish ) DA 24/1,4 WR for APS-C bodies.


With a new body every 5 years I will survive.


Of course, before buying my first DA* lens this year I have been looking for other options. So far, none of them has been suitable for my needs. So far, I can have a small system with limiteds if I want to.
09-19-2020, 03:34 AM - 1 Like   #42
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I am not surprised the numbers are low. What was the last new camera that Pentax released? The K-1 II or the KP? The KP came out in January of 2017, the K-1 II April of 2016, and the K-70 August of 2016. They are nice cameras, but every one of them is at least 3 years old and the K-1 II was just a mild refresh of the K-1 which was already a couple of years old.

Clearly, there is money coming in from the Theta and GR lines, but Pentax needs some new SLRs to generate some sales. I might buy a K-new. I definitely would look seriously at a K-1 II sequel if it ever comes out. Otherwise, new sales are probably mainly coming from people replacing really old or damaged gear and those sort of sales are bound to be slow.
09-19-2020, 04:21 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
(...) What was the last new camera that Pentax released? The K-1 II or the KP? The KP came out in January of 2017, the K-1 II April of 2016, and the K-70 August of 2016. (...)
Announcement dates:
  • K-1: February 2016
  • K-70: June 2016
  • KP: January 2017
  • K-1 Mark II: February 2018
09-19-2020, 05:53 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
I love Pentax, but it makes you wonder why they bother, and how they make it pay. Less than 1% of Canon sales.
Much depends on cost structure--where and how economies of scale kick in. Certainly, it's not a straight slope. And if Pentax is primarily a design foundry at this point, contracting manufacturing facilities as needed rather than owning them, their actual running expenses can be very low.
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09-19-2020, 10:54 AM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Flubber Quote
Buying second hand may enable someone else to buy new, with the money they've gained by selling their used equipment. There's just no way to measure this.
Yes. Although almost all of my 645Z gear was purchased used(I already had 3 lenses), that I could avail myself of the used market meant I could actually get into digital medium format. Could not have done this with Fuji.

Furthermore, although I already had an A7R that I bought just a couple of months before my Z in 2014, I eventually traded it in when I got my K1---which I upgraded the board for to make it a mkII---and then in this case bought the 28-105, the 100 macro, the 50 macro, the 24-70 and the 15-30 new. So, by being able to get into a Z system w/o going bankrupt, I then got the K1 as backup, and bought the new lenses. And the flashes, btw. So, no, Pentax didn't get all my money, but they got around $10Kusd. Not too shabby for one user. And that's after dumping a decent Sony kit....
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