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09-18-2020, 04:19 AM   #16
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The thing is whether people buy lenses or not. Canon was selling around 1.2-1.3 lenses per body at some point, I guess because a significant portion of their DSLR userbase has traditionally been the "buy one DSLR with just the kit lens and upgrade to a smartphone the second those fit my needs" crowd.
Pentax probably has a bigger proportion of lens hoarders advanced amateurs and connoiseurs so I'd hope the ratio is higher.

I myself own 5 Pentax-branded lenses, although none bought first hand (oops). I hope to rectify that with the D FA 21 Limited.

09-18-2020, 04:20 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mistral75 Quote
Not for the month, any month. For the whole 2019. Or 600 Pentax DSLRs per month in Japan.
Oops. My bad Thanks for the correction.

That number is small indeed...
09-18-2020, 04:24 AM   #18
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Yeah, hard times near the end of each month for more people will not easily invert the trend.
09-18-2020, 04:33 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
The thing is whether people buy lenses or not. Canon was selling around 1.2-1.3 lenses per body at some point, I guess because a significant portion of their DSLR userbase has traditionally been the "buy one DSLR with just the kit lens and upgrade to a smartphone the second those fit my needs" crowd.
Pentax probably has a bigger proportion of lens hoarders advanced amateurs and connoiseurs so I'd hope the ratio is higher.

I myself own 5 Pentax-branded lenses, although none bought first hand (oops). I hope to rectify that with the D FA 21 Limited.
According to CIPA the lens / ILC shipment ratio was equal to 1.68 in 2019 and to 1.81 from January to July 2020 (people bought a lot of macro lenses during the lockdown period).

I agree that Pentax has a bigger proportion of advanced amateurs and connoisseurs but also a (much) bigger proportion of second hand buyers with 'sea urchins in their wallet', as we say in France, so...

09-18-2020, 05:26 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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Buying second hand may enable someone else to buy new, with the money they've gained by selling their used equipment. There's just no way to measure this.
09-18-2020, 05:41 AM   #21
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This raises the question of what is the minimum number of units needed to make it wortwhile to continue for a manufacturer. I guess that below some level the manufacturer has to raise the price to compensate the low number up to the point where most people will find it too costly... Or, more simply, the amount of money they can make on such a low number become too meaningless relative to the trouble of maintaining the production.

It's also quite interesting to see that despite all the noise, fanfare and fireworks around the Canon and Nikon mirrorless launches their DSLRs still make, by far, the bulk of their sales. It seems that costly mirrorless FF cameras aren't the hot sellers many peoples want us to believe... The Nikon Z numbers are really underwhelming for something supposed to be the future and the savior of the company.

Last edited by CarlJF; 09-18-2020 at 10:04 AM.
09-18-2020, 07:12 AM - 1 Like   #22
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It also depends a lot on what sales the company has adjusted to. I guess Pentax has adjusted to fairly low sales.
SoCaNi however with all their marketing and ads etc. could end up with accounts that don't quite add up to their liking way faster.

09-18-2020, 09:54 AM   #23
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Does Ricoh GRIII belongs to mirrorless segment in this statistic?
09-18-2020, 10:00 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by jumbleview Quote
Does Ricoh GRIII belongs to mirrorless segment in this statistic?
Not an interchangeable camera, so nope.
09-18-2020, 10:09 AM - 2 Likes   #25
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Is 40000 units really that bad? Seriously if they average $1000 per camera (just a guess) that's still $40 million a year just from bodies, not including lenses and accessories, plus there is the whole Ricoh lineup with the GR and Theta. That might be small in comparison but that doesn't mean it's not a profitable and viable business. I can only guess at their income but those numbers would place it at least $50-100 million if not higher. That's nothing to sneeze at. I have spent most of my working career in tech startups much smaller than that. As long as at least some people want DLSR's and optical viewfinders I think they are going to be just fine as they seem to have already adapted to their market share.
09-18-2020, 10:49 AM   #26
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There are other things to consider looking at these numbers and trying to decide if 40,000 units is "good or bad". Canon and Sony used to have a big digital video camera market, which has largely been rolled into their DSLR market. I'd be curious how many units of video cameras they used to sell and if their DSLR numbers have offset that reduction 1:1. They also spend significantly more on advertising (at least in the US), which means profit margins could be quite a bit lower than that of Pentax products. As vector mentioned, it boils down to profitability not just market share. There are lots of companies out there in markets dominated by bigger companies that server a particular market and can continue to thrive by meeting the needs of their more niche demographic.
09-18-2020, 11:12 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Paul the Sunman Quote
I love Pentax, but it makes you wonder why they bother, and how they make it pay. Less than 1% of Canon sales.
It is a rather depressing, yes.
09-18-2020, 11:15 AM   #28
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...

why depressive? Can all of you feel the uniqueness?
09-18-2020, 11:56 AM - 1 Like   #29
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no, because Pentax is not Leica, Pentaxians are like the opposition in a government that has smart ideas and solutions but the majority position ignores them and does not allow exposing their good solutions
09-18-2020, 12:05 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by vector Quote
Is 40000 units really that bad? Seriously if they average $1000 per camera (just a guess) that's still $40 million a year just from bodies, not including lenses and accessories, plus there is the whole Ricoh lineup with the GR and Theta. That might be small in comparison but that doesn't mean it's not a profitable and viable business. (...)
The sales of Pentax-branded equipment are a minor part of Ricoh Imaging's revenue, which amounted to ¥18.3bn during the fiscal year ended on the 31st of March, 2019 (most recent data available). ¥18.3bn then, that's $165m for the whole Ricoh Imaging.

Remember that the average FOB price of DSLRs shipped in 2019 was ¥38,765 i.e. around $355. Even if the average FOB price of Pentax DSLRs were higher than the one of Canon and Nikon cameras, it wouldn't reach $1,000. By far.
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