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09-30-2020, 07:46 AM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
Oh, my intuitive sense would be a tad more endurance of and esteem for DSLRs and their lenses than in some other places (although that is changing fast), but otherwise it's the usual "Oh, you're still shooting Pentax. What went wrong?" or "Didn't know they're still in business" or "Interesting, I have never seen a camera of that brand" kind of BS.

But obviously I don't have any reliable data to back that up.
If you live there, you already know a lot more than I do.

09-30-2020, 08:02 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Lensrentals.com has.

Got intrigued by this. Here's a start for those inclined to read further on how adapters may affect IQ: Lens Rentals | Blog
09-30-2020, 08:04 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Lensrentals.com has.
Then I'm terrible at searching, because I can only find adapters with glass being shown to have performance loss near the edges of the image (to a point described as "probably doesn't matter in real life").

---------- Post added 09-30-20 at 08:08 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
Got intrigued by this. Here's a start for those inclined to read further on how adapters may affect IQ: Lens Rentals | Blog
Hah, I somehow hadn't found that one. That's a 7-year old article in any case, and I haven't seen anything regarding specifically the EF-RF or the FTZ adapters. In every other instance of adapter woes, they talk about AF, not about IQ. Even in the rental page of the EF-RF adapter they say "It’s a simple adapter that contains no optical components, so it maintains the mounted lens’s original optical quality"

Last edited by Serkevan; 09-30-2020 at 08:11 AM.
09-30-2020, 08:17 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Then I'm terrible at searching, because I can only find adapters with glass being shown to have performance loss near the edges of the image (to a point described as "probably doesn't matter in real life").

In the blog article I linked to, Roger Cicala takes as little as four paragraphs into his intro to write,

"So when I hear people cavalierly talking about putting an adapter on their camera I tend to cringe. When a single camera-lens interface has enough variability to sometimes be visible, adding another large piece of metal with another mount interface seems a recipe for problems."

He certainly doesn't trash adapters altogether and argues that they wouldn't exist if they didn't work on the whole, but at least in the laboratory, he did find some evidence of image degradation towards the edges.

09-30-2020, 08:27 AM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
In the blog article I linked to, Roger Cicala takes as little as four paragraphs into his intro to write,

"So when I hear people cavalierly talking about putting an adapter on their camera I tend to cringe. When a single camera-lens interface has enough variability to sometimes be visible, adding another large piece of metal with another mount interface seems a recipe for problems."

He certainly doesn't trash adapters altogether and argues that they wouldn't exist if they didn't work on the whole, but at least in the laboratory, he did find some evidence of image degradation towards the edges.
Once you start to comprehend the ubiquitousness of sample variation, you realize the possible pitfalls of adding yet another sample to the pipeline. If you can avoid it, why wouldn't you?
09-30-2020, 11:53 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Yeah, I noticed the same as well. The alternative is that people are buying DSLM bodies but using (and buying!) DSLR lenses. I mean, both Canon and Nikon have working adapters.

That, or a significant percentage of mirrorless bodies is being used exclusively for old glass, meaning we can blame Sony for the price increases in Takumar lenses lately
Takys virtually doubled in price in a year,that year was 2016...year of the K-1.mirrorless contributed as well of course.

---------- Post added 10-01-20 at 06:14 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
That's a 7-year old article in any case, and I haven't seen anything regarding specifically the EF-RF or the FTZ adapters
What ive read,many times over by people transitioning from Canon Dslrs,is that they are getting better results with their EF/s glass.I have not see one report of the lens being inferior.

Also,third party AF adapters are developing for many of the $ony,CaNIK mirrorless bodies.Many have good reputations.

Rogers observations are for OLD technology and may not apply to the more recent adapters.

---------- Post added 10-01-20 at 06:27 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
they wouldn't exist if they didn't work
CaNiks recent adapters havent had any criticism from what ive seen.Plenty of praise though.

Last edited by surfar; 09-30-2020 at 12:20 PM.
09-30-2020, 12:39 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Takys virtually doubled in price in a year,that year was 2016...year of the K-1.mirrorless contributed as well of course.
Oh, my observation comes from seeing a good bunch of Taks on Ebay displayed with options for Sony adapters being included (or coming from Sony shooters). My M20/4, though not a Tak anymore, was bought from a lady who used it on her A7R2, actually . I'm sure that a lot of K-1 shooters (re)acquired vintage glass as well.


QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
What ive read,many times over by people transitioning from Canon Dslrs,is that they are getting better results with their EF/s glass.I have not see one report of the lens being inferior.

Also,third party AF adapters are developing for many of the $ony,CaNIK mirrorless bodies.Many have good reputations.

Rogers observations are for OLD technology and may not apply to the more recent adapters.
Yeah, I've seen a lot of sample photos (even LensRentals used an adapted EF 85/1.2 for the R review!) and I'm willing to put down money that I wouldn't be able to tell which is taken with an R and which is taken with a 5D4, unless there's side-by-side pixel-peeping...

I just remembered something re: the state of camera industry in Germany, by the way... Olympus still has a fairly noticeable section in a couple of big box stores here (the Saturn one is a bunch of tables with all the current models save the X on display). I passed by today to buy a micro SD card - all the photo stuff is still there, and there's a big variety of all makers except Pentax, whose vitrine has been taped over with a DJI sign
10-01-2020, 08:57 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Madaboutpix Quote
Got intrigued by this. Here's a start for those inclined to read further on how adapters may affect IQ: Lens Rentals | Blog
I do believe that on MTF-geekery level all this is true, but it is not relevant in real life.

Putting cam/lens-combos on a tripod and different ways to handhold the combos certainly will result in as much deviations - simply because you apply physical forces to something that is flexible in a very minimal way but sensitive to most minute bending.

It also will be felt mostly with ultra wides only.

---------- Post added 1st Oct 2020 at 18:01 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Rogers observations are for OLD technology and may not apply to the more recent adapters.
It depends. I read a thread where someone was comparing three current RF adapters (one OEM, 2 3rdparties).
The Meike or Viltrox one was wiggly, the other one was too tight and required some froce to screw off. The OEM one worked nicely.

So again we have quality control and sample variation come into play.

10-01-2020, 12:34 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
The Meike or Viltrox one was wiggly, the other one was too tight and required some froce to screw off. The OEM one worked nicely.
Lets define "wiggly"...ha ha.With the Viltrox there is a tiny tiny amount of play that when you are shooting just isnt noticed.Ive not ever noticed the play until this little test ive just done.I dont own the Meike,the Canon is snug.

I own quite a number of Viltrox products,they all perform up to expectation.

Specifically the AF adapters,they work quite well,Ive not had any problems on my Canon or my Fujis.

Their only fault is they dont work with every EF/s mount lens so people have to do their homework before they buy.

Last edited by surfar; 10-01-2020 at 12:43 PM.
10-03-2020, 12:00 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
Lets define "wiggly"
They had contact issues and one user didnt trust it enough to put a long lens on it as he could feel it moving too much.
10-03-2020, 12:04 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by beholder3 Quote
They had contact issues and one user didnt trust it enough to put a long lens on it as he could feel it moving too much.
That could be a case of sample variation?Ive used Viltrox with 150-600s(Tamron and Sigma) and no problems(but i dont shoot them one handed,espescially the SigmaSport).
10-04-2020, 03:12 AM - 2 Likes   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by FozzFoster Quote
I don't talk about using my camera as a phone. haha I'm imaging holding my camera up to my ear "Hello?"
But I do go off on the fact that if any external camera is going to properly compete with the internal camera in a smartphone, then the external camera needs to have a deep remotely integrated connection with the phone.
I really like how Ricoh's Theta products integrate with smartphones.

---------- Post added 09-29-20 at 08:21 AM ----------

and phone companies are actively trying to blur that line and to make their products more than just a phone...

Huawei P30
"The P is for Photography"
lolololo

^^^ ^^^

---------- Post added 09-29-20 at 08:17 AM ----------
The issue with smart phones is that while they do lots of functions, they don't necessarily do them well. I can shoot images with my smart phone, but if they are anything but good light images, they start to show the effect. Video is nice to have, but it certainly doesn't take the place of a camcorder. As for music, the quality depends on the level of MP3 and head phones you own.

Ergonomics for many of these things is often sub optimal as well. Taking photos with a K-1, while it is much heavier, is much more comfortable over a few hours than with my iphone 8. Typing up anything longer than a text really requires a dedicated keyboard.

Smart phones are ubiquitous at this point and have a lot of features but my guess is that cinephiles still have home theater systems, audiophiles still have high end stereo and speaker equipment, and those who appreciate taking good still photographs will have a dedicated camera.

Last edited by Rondec; 10-04-2020 at 12:33 PM.
10-04-2020, 09:59 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Smart phones are ubiquitous at this point and have a lot of features but my guess is that cinephiles still have home theater systems, audiophiles still have high end stereo and speaker equipment, and those who appreciate taking good still photographs will have a dedicate camera.
Well said @Rondec !
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