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10-04-2020, 04:07 AM   #16
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"So to answer your question, I need a hybrid camera, not a video camera, and right now the best on the market is the XT series from Fuji."
Actually , you are demanding that Ricoh starts producing something you have already got. That does not make sense. I'd rather see they throw any video aspirations overboard, make a splendid stills camera and because of not aiming at videographers they are probably able to produce that camera at a friendly price. I need a camera that is as easy handling as any old film camera, but with improved image quality. If I want to shoot video (which I do not) I buy a videocamera or as a last resort use my smartphone to do so.

10-04-2020, 06:23 AM   #17
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Pentax make cameras. A picture is worth a thousand words. Those without thought, watch videos.
10-04-2020, 07:47 AM - 1 Like   #18
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I read the entire OP, every word, and to be very honest I didn't perceive the >need< for a 4K capable Pentax. I definitely perceived the want and the desire but
not the need. As others have pointed out, that need is already being met with your other gear(*).

I don't deny you have a desire for a 4K capable Pentax, many people seemingly do. But I fail to see the need. What specifically would a 4K Pentax do that the
rest of your gear can not? That would be the starting point to argue for the >need< for a 4K Pentax.

* - Truthfully, I didn't perceive the need for 4K at all, but I can only assume at some point in your chain you are exhibiting your video in an environment where
the 4K quality is noticeable. It definitely seems irrelevant for the embedded thumbnail video included in the OP.
10-04-2020, 08:17 AM - 1 Like   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I guess that was sarcasm, but I do exactly that. Phones that are not internet-enabled are called "feature phones" and I use one.

I do have a smart phone but don't use it for calls. I reluctantly use it as a portable PC only when I have to. When I switch it on, and then again when I access anything with it, it is bombarded with spam, apps, and IDK what else. Last week I had to use it outside a shop (Currys, UK) to message them (as they required) that I was outside to collect an order, and when I logged on to them site I had to watch them stuffing my phone with software and data for at least two minutes before I could do anything with it. They are out of control, and a PITA. Yet some people want this stuff integrated into their cameras!

I want tools optimised for the job and "stills outline" ICL cameras are not optimal for video. The good news is that I believe that cameras aimed at video users will evolve away from those aimed at stills users. Those extras for video use, like gimbals and serious microphones, will become integral to the camera, just as, historically, exposure meters and flash became integrated with still cameras. Who knows, maybe video-oriented ICL cameras might evolve into - you know: camcorders! and leave us stills photographers alone with our stills-oriented brands like Pentax.
I fully understand where your coming from. I have been so dissatisfied with digital photography in general that I went back to a camera made of wood.

Ansel Adams said (to paraphrase) - "isn't it interesting how much we progress with so little improvement."


Digital may be 1000 times easier but the 3 fiber based silver gelatin photographs I made in the darkroom last night, which took 3 hours, are definitely something beyond digital. Silver reflects light, ink doesn't. And no batteries or internet required! JMHO.

---------- Post added 10-04-20 at 08:21 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by roberrl Quote
Although we still don't know the full spec for K-new it seems to me that what has been revealed so far (no flippy screen, enhanced viewfinder) suggests this camera is going into some market area which does not care about video, not much about action photography and no desire to compete with the big boys in general.
While I have no problem with Ricoh/Pentax choosing and following their niche (it's their business after all) I'm sad that the manufacturer I have followed for 6 decades is moving away from my use case.
I have often had the need to capture stills and video at the same event and tried carrying both sorts of camera - it's a PITA.
I know this view does not fit with the majority view on the forum - it might be wrong headed but it's the truth as I see it.
Well considering where Fuji is sales wise and compared to Pentax, I think a lot of other people see it like that too.

You can always choose to not use a feature if you have it, but you can't use it if you don't.


Including 4K isn't going to make some people not buy it, but not including it will.

---------- Post added 10-04-20 at 08:28 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Quote
"So to answer your question, I need a hybrid camera, not a video camera, and right now the best on the market is the XT series from Fuji."
Actually , you are demanding that Ricoh starts producing something you have already got. That does not make sense. I'd rather see they throw any video aspirations overboard, make a splendid stills camera and because of not aiming at videographers they are probably able to produce that camera at a friendly price. I need a camera that is as easy handling as any old film camera, but with improved image quality. If I want to shoot video (which I do not) I buy a videocamera or as a last resort use my smartphone to do so.
I am not "demanding" anything.

I already have a camera system that does what I need it to do. But it's not my preferred system. And I only bought that system because Pentax didn't offer what I needed. I want Pentax to succeed and I want to buy a Pentax because I prefer Pentax over Fuji (and others) for many reasons, and I already have a bag full of Pentax lenses.

I don't see adding video as having to necessarily sacrifice stills capabilities. It's funny how it's kind of assumed that Pentax can only handle so much and incorporating video into their cameras would have to take away from some other area.

---------- Post added 10-04-20 at 08:34 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
I read the entire OP, every word, and to be very honest I didn't perceive the >need< for a 4K capable Pentax. I definitely perceived the want and the desire but
not the need. As others have pointed out, that need is already being met with your other gear(*).

I don't deny you have a desire for a 4K capable Pentax, many people seemingly do. But I fail to see the need. What specifically would a 4K Pentax do that the
rest of your gear can not? That would be the starting point to argue for the >need< for a 4K Pentax.

* - Truthfully, I didn't perceive the need for 4K at all, but I can only assume at some point in your chain you are exhibiting your video in an environment where
the 4K quality is noticeable. It definitely seems irrelevant for the embedded thumbnail video included in the OP.
Watch that video on a 4K 50 inch tv... An $800 drone does 4K60 and 48MP stills and it also has to navigate, fly and not crash...

No, it's not a need. But Like I said, I want Pentax to succeed and I'd rather use a Pentax so if they want to sell me a new camera it really needs to have 4K capabilities for that to happen otherwise I'm staying where I'm at.


Pentax can go out of business at this point and it wouldn't affect me at all, though I'd be sad that it happened...


Last edited by Qwntm; 10-04-2020 at 08:37 AM.
10-04-2020, 10:11 AM - 5 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
Silver reflects light, ink doesn't.
Then how do we see ink?
10-04-2020, 11:31 AM - 3 Likes   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by cmohr Quote
Pentax make cameras. A picture is worth a thousand words. Those without thought, watch videos.
Come on, I don't have any interest in video myself (entire 2 minutes of footage in two years) but dismissing video like that is the same as people dismissing photography as "painting for those who cannot paint".
10-04-2020, 11:39 AM - 2 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Come on, I don't have any interest in video myself (entire 2 minutes of footage in two years) but dismissing video like that is the same as people dismissing photography as "painting for those who cannot paint".
True enough!

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10-04-2020, 01:04 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
Watch that video on a 4K 50 inch tv..
And that was my point: the OP didn't specify where the end product was targeted. Personally, I own neither a 4K TV nor a 4+foot wide TV, (rolls eyes), and
so find the persistent push for 4K to be all so much marketing bluster. Conceptually, I can understand the potential need, given the correct viewing environment
But for most applications, including internet broadcast and a majority(?) of home entertainment (TVs), 4K is serious overkill. Perhaps we'll get to Idiocracy
sooner rather than later, at which point 4K may indeed become 'needed'.
10-04-2020, 01:20 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Serkevan Quote
Come on, I don't have any interest in video myself (entire 2 minutes of footage in two years) but dismissing video like that is the same as people dismissing photography as "painting for those who cannot paint".
I disagree with your analogy. How does 'lack of video capability' compare with 'not as good as other medium'? Said another way, we might criticize
our cameras for not being able to paint on canvas as the equivalent to having poor video specs.

More to the point, each of these mediums is VERY MUCH it's own entity and drawing direct correlations will >>always<< be fraught with shortcomings.
Why not demand a camera that can 'paint'? Not just chintzy filters that give us painterly effects, (that's the 480p equivalent solution), but a true painterly
output with visibly raised texture, brush strokes and even the smell of drying oils.

And yes, I realize this analogy is getting very silly, which is fully intended.
10-04-2020, 01:39 PM - 2 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
I disagree with your analogy. How does 'lack of video capability' compare with 'not as good as other medium'? Said another way, we might criticize
our cameras for not being able to paint on canvas as the equivalent to having poor video specs.

More to the point, each of these mediums is VERY MUCH it's own entity and drawing direct correlations will >>always<< be fraught with shortcomings.
Why not demand a camera that can 'paint'? Not just chintzy filters that give us painterly effects, (that's the 480p equivalent solution), but a true painterly
output with visibly raised texture, brush strokes and even the smell of drying oils.

And yes, I realize this analogy is getting very silly, which is fully intended.
I was replying to someone who said that "Those without thought, watch videos", as a direct comparison with photography, clearly painted (hah!) as the superior option. That's dismissing an entire medium - and those who make use of it.
10-04-2020, 02:14 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Qwntm Quote
I am not "demanding" anything.
I did not read it that way. What I did read is that you wanted your video captures to be consistently 4K. I don't have a 4K TV, but would very much appreciate a faster frame rate for 1080p just for general video shooting. That said, it has been well over a year since I used my K-3 to shoot video and even then, it was not serious work. However, when I do shoot video, I can't really complain about the quality for most subjects.

In regards to film...I have been neglecting my wooden camera for far too long.


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10-04-2020, 02:25 PM   #27
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I like my Lumix ZS100's 4k video. I've shot at least 5 minutes video with it. It fits easily in my camera bag.

I seem to recall, someone said no 4k video, no 4k TV, I also knew people who never made prints beyond the 4x6 from the kiosk. No judgement, each to his own.
10-04-2020, 02:55 PM - 6 Likes   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by roberrl Quote
I'm sad that the manufacturer I have followed for 6 decades is moving away from my use case.
It sounds like your use case drifted away from that of Pentax's offerings and that it happened only in the last decade or so. Video as a feature on digital SLR cameras has only been available since 2008 (Nikon D90) and on Pentax products since 2009 (k-7). As for doubling up to shoot video and stills at the same event, I would be afraid of losing the stills shots while concentrating on a video clip. Better to have a partner doing the video, like they do with weddings, IMHO.


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10-04-2020, 05:42 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It sounds like your use case drifted away from that of Pentax's offerings and that it happened only in the last decade or so. Video as a feature on digital SLR cameras has only been available since 2008 (Nikon D90) and on Pentax products since 2009 (k-7). As for doubling up to shoot video and stills at the same event, I would be afraid of losing the stills shots while concentrating on a video clip. Better to have a partner doing the video, like they do with weddings, IMHO.


Steve
Huh, I always thought the first DSLR with video was the Canon 5D Mark ii... but it came out a month and a half later than the Nikon. Today I learned .


I totally agree on the event point... The last wedding I attended had a dedicated videographer with a "proper" video camera (one of these TV-camera-style big thingies), one or two were alternating video and stills depending on the event (I think everything was fairly well planned in advanced, so they knew how and when to shoot) and two more were stills only. In such events it must be tough to juggle both videos and stills if you're going at it alone - you're not trying to capture the same thing in the same way after all and one cannot do everything at the same time...
10-04-2020, 09:50 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
It sounds like your use case drifted away from that of Pentax's offerings and that it happened only in the last decade or so. Video as a feature on digital SLR cameras has only been available since 2008 (Nikon D90) and on Pentax products since 2009 (k-7). As for doubling up to shoot video and stills at the same event, I would be afraid of losing the stills shots while concentrating on a video clip. Better to have a partner doing the video, like they do with weddings, IMHO.


Steve
Well, that's what has happened to me. I never needed video at all, until I did. And if the industry standard is 4k, and Fuji, Canon, Nikon, and Sony all can do it at almost the same price point, then I and the market have drifted away from Pentax. Which was my point really, I'd drift back given the chance.

The key to shooting stills and video of the same thing is to have multiple cameras. My $499 Fuji XE-3 does 4K 30 FPS video and makes a great 2nd camera while I capture stills on my XT-3. I'm making landscape travel videos, but I would shoot everything the same way at a wedding or event if stills and video were required. But a partner watching over the video would be preferable for sure! And what a pleasure to have one set of lenses and cameras that do both video and stills equally well like the Fuji's do now and Pentax could do even better if they wanted to.

---------- Post added 10-04-20 at 09:59 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by tvdtvdtvd Quote
And that was my point: the OP didn't specify where the end product was targeted. Personally, I own neither a 4K TV nor a 4+foot wide TV, (rolls eyes), and
so find the persistent push for 4K to be all so much marketing bluster. Conceptually, I can understand the potential need, given the correct viewing environment
But for most applications, including internet broadcast and a majority(?) of home entertainment (TVs), 4K is serious overkill. Perhaps we'll get to Idiocracy
sooner rather than later, at which point 4K may indeed become 'needed'.

Your right, I didn't, my mistake. The end product is photography/travel/adventure videos for my YouTube channel, (which I thought the example video would kind of obviously suggest, I guess not) and the competition in that category, Thomas Heaton, Ben Horne, Nick Page, Nigel Danson, to name a few are ALL posting exclusively 4K content, as are most everyone in those categories, and most successful channels in general on YouTube.

So do I "need" 4K? Yup. If the goal is to have a successful channel on Youtube, then that's the standard to shoot for, and is easily achieved shooting Fuji. So IMHO, 4K is needed right now.
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