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11-27-2020, 02:44 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by surfar Quote
The Fuji files are enormous, over 2gb.
That’s a storage killer. The very few people who actually need this must have spent a great deal on hard drives. I still think the 4-shots approach is reasonable and well manageable. The color analysis is strong and the resolution is more than enough.

11-27-2020, 02:44 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by HoutHans Quote
As someone wrote on that other website whose name shall not be mentioned here: brings us back to days where you'd have 36 exposures on your film roll. The Fuji approach seems nonsensical to me, other than for the how many ??? people doing that ultrahigh resolution work in a studio environment.
I agree that few people use it, but if the camera can do it, then the function is not at all superfluous. This is the versatility of the tool.
11-27-2020, 02:56 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mixalis_kalymnos1611 Quote
I still think the 4-shots approach is reasonable and well manageable. The color analysis is strong and the resolution is more than enough.
Yes,my thoughts too.

Its interesting the different ways PS/HiRes is done.

Pentax 4 shots

Olympus 8

Fuji/Sony 16 and someone said Panasonic use this many but I kinda remember that they have a 4 option too(?).

Edit,it appears that both FF and M43 Panasonics use a 4 shot sequence too.

CaNik not yet!

---------- Post added 11-27-20 at 09:06 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
I think the Panasonic S1 does 16 images also.
4 from what Ive seen..Sony does 16.

---------- Post added 11-27-20 at 09:09 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by automorphism Quote
Olympus also has pixel shift as well. The G9 for example can do 80mp shots with it.
Olympus has HiRes mode,8 shots moved half a pixel at a time.

The G9 is a Panasonic body and does 4shots.

Last edited by surfar; 11-27-2020 at 03:01 AM.
11-27-2020, 06:26 AM - 3 Likes   #19
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On expeditions I usually take a lot of multi panel compositions which often result in dng files 300mb and larger. With PS I will definitely adjust my workflow. I've only played a little bit with PS on the KP and was pleasantly surprised.

Whether it should be four frames or 16 I can't tell, but I assume that at some point there will be diminishing returns as the number of frames increase.

We do large prints and squeeze every pixel out of a picture. Only about 5% of pictures make the technical cut to be concidered for printing. So I think PS will improve that. The largest print we've done so far is in multi panels abt 3m high x 20m long.

Large files had a number of knock on impacts. Using the cloud as a safe storage medium became impractical and too expensive. I closed my unlimited storage cloud accounts and installed a 60TB home cloud Synology system. Already 25% used.

For offsite backup storage I installed a slightly smaller version with upgrade/expansion capability later as needed, located far from me. Actually on another continent. These two systems sync as needed.

This my storage problem is resolved for abt 10 years at 1/3 of the cost of a conventional cloud system. Plus at home the cloud becomes a nas with transfer speeds close to 100 mB/s.

The next was my editing computer. I'm a PC guy but seriously considered a mac, if it could deal with these large files. Eventually settled on a full house HP laptop with a price tag of a motorcar. That was almost two years ago.

This year my wife became so tired of dealing with slow editing on her computer with large files that she also got an updated laptop, she chose the Lenovo full house, paid a bit less for a newer version, latest tech and faster than my now aging HP.

So if you are thinking of getting into large prints and plenty pixels, be prepared to deal with editing hardware and solving storage issues, they all go together.

All I need now is more talent and skills in taking the pictures :-)

11-27-2020, 07:29 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Fuji's approach is a multiplication of pixels. Pentax's is to defeat Bayer interpolation by providing native full color to each pixel.


Steve
Ah, thank you. Makes sense. I'll take Pentax's approach for my work.

What I wish Pentax would do if there is another medium format camera is to bring PS to it, composition adjustment, and automated focus stacking the way Phase One has.

For me, Pentax's PS mode combined with focus stacking would be pretty killer in my work, and if it could be automated then it would be really killer.
11-27-2020, 07:36 AM - 1 Like   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by mixalis_kalymnos1611 Quote
The only reason anyone would bother with a 200mb output is an insanely expensive and enormous print.
Mainly I agree, but there are some niche professional uses that argue for these sorts of files---in my work at a museum, and nowadays all photography for cultural heritage, even photographing one object can involve the activities of multiple people, scheduling, & etc---it's a big headache. So, anything that would allow you to photograph something more or less "once and for all" is a boon. The actual taking of the photograph is the least of it (except for lighting). The costs of storage (and the files have to be TIFF's , at that!) are much less a problem than the time and personnel costs. But of course, this is niche---but I'll bet there's other sorts of niche uses that have similar issues
11-27-2020, 01:39 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by mixalis_kalymnos1611 Quote
That’s a storage killer. The very few people who actually need this must have spent a great deal on hard drives. I still think the 4-shots approach is reasonable and well manageable. The color analysis is strong and the resolution is more than enough.
If you spend $10,000 on the body you probably can afford a few hundred dollars for the storage.

11-27-2020, 03:27 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by KiloHotelphoto Quote
If you spend $10,000 on the body you probably can afford a few hundred dollars for the storage.
Well, point of order: for files like these, it's also going to be a couple of thousand for storage, unless you're only shooting a few hundred shots.

But yes, if one is shooting $10K cameras then one should be expecting all sorts of ancillary expenditures.
11-27-2020, 10:49 PM   #24
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Yep, I guess so. This is probably the biggest advantage of digital camera's: the ability to add features with minimal marginal costs. All it takes is a bit of extra code to add this feature (again I doubt whether many people will use/need it), provided of course the camera has in body shake reduction.
11-29-2020, 10:57 AM - 2 Likes   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Ah, thank you. Makes sense. I'll take Pentax's approach for my work.

What I wish Pentax would do if there is another medium format camera is to bring PS to it, composition adjustment, and automated focus stacking the way Phase One has.

For me, Pentax's PS mode combined with focus stacking would be pretty killer in my work, and if it could be automated then it would be really killer.
I would love focus stacking in both the 645Z and K-1. Since focus stacking doesn't require a moving sensor, it should be possible to add it to the Z via firmware. I'd even pay for that firmware! Pentax make it so!

Thanks,
barondla
11-29-2020, 03:50 PM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
I would love focus stacking in both the 645Z and K-1. Since focus stacking doesn't require a moving sensor, it should be possible to add it to the Z via firmware. I'd even pay for that firmware! Pentax make it so!

Thanks,
barondla
I’ve used it in my Oly OMD-EM1 and the 60mm Olympus Macro. In camera in camera stacking I think is limited to 6 or so images. I’m thinking it is a limit based on memory.
11-29-2020, 05:41 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
I’ve used it in my Oly OMD-EM1 and the 60mm Olympus Macro. In camera in camera stacking I think is limited to 6 or so images. I’m thinking it is a limit based on memory.
Cool feature. I don't care if it stacks in camera. I just want the camera to move the lens in the small increments I set on the menu. I'll stack all the Raw files later in a computer.
11-29-2020, 07:06 PM - 1 Like   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Cool feature. I don't care if it stacks in camera. I just want the camera to move the lens in the small increments I set on the menu. I'll stack all the Raw files later in a computer.
That’s an interesting idea also.
11-30-2020, 04:30 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by texandrews Quote
Ah, thank you. Makes sense. I'll take Pentax's approach for my work.

What I wish Pentax would do if there is another medium format camera is to bring PS to it, composition adjustment, and automated focus stacking the way Phase One has.

For me, Pentax's PS mode combined with focus stacking would be pretty killer in my work, and if it could be automated then it would be really killer.
I agree. My goal is usually to have a higher quality image and four shot pixel shift gives that to me. My guess is that for landscapes, the chances of having enough stillness in a scene that 16 images would actually add extra detail is debatable. It just takes about a second to capture four images on a K-1 and if there is a little breeze, a lot of times the pixel shift doesn't offer much additional detail.

So, I agree with you -- I'd like to see SR and current pixel shift options ported over to the 645z sequel, if it ever comes out.
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