Metz Mecatech: Insolvent again

bdery · 01-12-2021, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Class A

I'm not dissing Metz, they produced solid products, but there has been too little development for too long for their products to remain competitive.

You are correct that lack of innovation slowed them down. Or rather, they invested their limited development on things that didn't pan out in the end (touchscreens, innovative interfaces, etc).

The lack of radios is a big negative in 2021, true.

I have used a few Godox, yep.

**fs999** · 01-13-2021, 03:29 AM

Originally posted by Class A

Nowadays, not having a built-in radio receiver is quite a bit negative when it comes to features.

So Pentax flashes are outdated too...

Originally posted by Class A

At least some Metz flash models have weird limitations regarding Pentax support, e.g., not being able to operate as an HSS-master.

What do you mean with HSS-master ? There is a HSS mode and a master mode in all current line of flashes...

Class A · 01-13-2021, 05:49 AM

Originally posted by fs999

So Pentax flashes are outdated too...

Yes.

Not only do they lack radio communication, P-TTL is an old protocol that is significantly inferior to similar protocols, e.g., the Nikon CLS.

Originally posted by fs999

What do you mean with HSS-master ?

I'm referring to the functionality of using an on-camera flash in tandem with off-camera slaves, while using shutter speeds that are higher than the sync-speed of the camera.

A number of Metz flashes (all of them?) cannot be used as an on-camera controller if HSS is engaged.

**fs999** · 01-13-2021, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Class A

A number of Metz flashes (all of them?) cannot be used as an on-camera controller if HSS is engaged.

Thank you for the clarification. I will try this evening with my 52 AF-1, 48 AF-1 and M400 to see if that config works.

**fs999** · 01-14-2021, 03:37 AM

So I have tested and not found a HSS-Master mode, only Master or HSS but not both. Can Pentax flashes do that ?

thibs · 02-04-2021, 04:33 PM

Any news about Metz ?
Too early I guess ?

stevebrot · 02-04-2021, 05:34 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by fs999

So I have tested and not found a HSS-Master mode, only Master or HSS but not both. Can Pentax flashes do that ?

Both the master/controller and slave must be set to HSS for it to work using optical wireless. The slave does not need to talk to the camera, but it does need to discharge as a timed pulse as directed by the master/controller. My Sigma EF-610 DG Super allows both to be set and it is my understanding that Pentax flash support the same (see addendum below).

Addendum: On review of how my Sigma works, only the master/controller may be set to HSS. The slave follows orders to support same. The AF360/540FGZ II are similar only the manual says to explicitly set the sync on the slave to leading curtain (manual page 61ff). The instructions are similar for the AF360/540FGZ (v1). I would expect that Metz may use the same convention on their P-TTL flash that support HSS, but tests would be required to confirm.

Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 02-05-2021 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Accuracy and completeness

**fs999** · 02-05-2021, 02:51 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

My Sigma EF-610 DG Super allows both to be set and it is my understanding that Pentax flash support the same.

Sigma don't sell it for Pentax anymore...

stevebrot · 02-05-2021, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by fs999

Sigma don't sell it for Pentax anymore...

They don't sell it for anyone anymore.

I mentioned the Sigma only as an example, but on review, I was incorrect to infer that both the master/controller and slave must be set for optical wireless HSS. The slave will follow the master.

Steve

AfterPentax Mark II · 08-02-2021, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

This is sad news and it is hard to say what role the flash division played in the insolvency. There is stiff competition in that market in general; note the recent loss of Cactus as well.

Steve

It did not play a big part. Their problem was that they developed an e-bike the Metz Moover and they could not sell it due to the high pricing of this e-bike/scooter.

**fs999** · 08-03-2021, 05:08 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

They don't sell it for anyone anymore. I mentioned the Sigma only as an example, but on review, I was incorrect to infer that both the master/controller and slave must be set for optical wireless HSS. The slave will follow the master.

Didb't see your answer...
They are still selling the EF-140S for dp Quattro and EF-630 for Canon, Nikon and Sigma...

pinholecam · 08-04-2021, 06:49 PM - **1 Like**

Manufacturers from (notably China) has moved up and eaten a big piece of the pie while smaller makers nibble too at the low end of 'dummy flashes', and TBH, Metz has not innovated much.

I still recall the poverty wizards (many versions all under then model PT-04 )from YongNuo as being finicky stuff, but companies such as these moved up their game, to radio wireless > integration into their flash > flash grouping > Master controllers.
They improved massively in quality too.
Later, ones like Godox came up with HSS, radio wireless HSS, PTTL.
No more legacy optical (can be blocked) triggering, opened up the possibilities greatly (which Metz is still stuck in; as with even Pentax)

Sad to see Metz being insolvent again, but it does show that competitors that were laughed at a few years ago are not sleeping.

**fs999** · 08-05-2021, 01:05 AM

Originally posted by pinholecam

Sad to see Metz being insolvent again, but it does show that competitors that were laughed at a few years ago are not sleeping.

I think it is definitively over now.
The profitable parts (TVs and eScooter) has been saved and the rest has been trashed...

pinholecam · 08-05-2021, 05:13 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by fs999

I think it is definitively over now.
The profitable parts (TVs and eScooter) has been saved and the rest has been trashed...

Really unfortunate.
I started off with their flash (think it was the 36 or 44 ... been 13-15yrs )

Was actually looking at the very small Mecablitz 26 for portability and macro purposes recently.

**fs999** · 08-05-2021, 11:58 PM

Originally posted by pinholecam

Really unfortunate.
I started off with their flash (think it was the 36 or 44 ... been 13-15yrs )

Was actually looking at the very small Mecablitz 26 for portability and macro purposes recently.

I began with Metz when Braun stopped to make the best flashes in the world, what else to do...

I use now more often my M400 in place of the 52AF-1 for macros. There are a lot for sale around...

02-05-2021, 01:12 PM	#39
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by fs999 Sigma don't sell it for Pentax anymore... They don't sell it for anyone anymore. I mentioned the Sigma only as an example, but on review, I was incorrect to infer that both the master/controller and slave must be set for optical wireless HSS. The slave will follow the master. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 02-05-2021 at 01:41 PM.

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01-12-2021, 06:33 AM	#31
bdery Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Quebec city, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,357	Originally posted by Class A I'm not dissing Metz, they produced solid products, but there has been too little development for too long for their products to remain competitive. You are correct that lack of innovation slowed them down. Or rather, they invested their limited development on things that didn't pan out in the end (touchscreens, innovative interfaces, etc). The lack of radios is a big negative in 2021, true. I have used a few Godox, yep.

01-13-2021, 03:29 AM	#32
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A Nowadays, not having a built-in radio receiver is quite a bit negative when it comes to features. So Pentax flashes are outdated too... Originally posted by Class A At least some Metz flash models have weird limitations regarding Pentax support, e.g., not being able to operate as an HSS-master. What do you mean with HSS-master ? There is a HSS mode and a master mode in all current line of flashes...

01-13-2021, 05:49 AM	#33
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by fs999 So Pentax flashes are outdated too... Yes. Not only do they lack radio communication, P-TTL is an old protocol that is significantly inferior to similar protocols, e.g., the Nikon CLS. Originally posted by fs999 What do you mean with HSS-master ? I'm referring to the functionality of using an on-camera flash in tandem with off-camera slaves, while using shutter speeds that are higher than the sync-speed of the camera. A number of Metz flashes (all of them?) cannot be used as an on-camera controller if HSS is engaged.

01-13-2021, 06:37 AM	#34
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by Class A A number of Metz flashes (all of them?) cannot be used as an on-camera controller if HSS is engaged. Thank you for the clarification. I will try this evening with my 52 AF-1, 48 AF-1 and M400 to see if that config works.

01-14-2021, 03:37 AM	#35
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,636 Original Poster	So I have tested and not found a HSS-Master mode, only Master or HSS but not both. Can Pentax flashes do that ?

02-04-2021, 04:33 PM	#36
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Any news about Metz ? Too early I guess ?

02-04-2021, 05:34 PM - 1 Like	#37
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by fs999 So I have tested and not found a HSS-Master mode, only Master or HSS but not both. Can Pentax flashes do that ? Both the master/controller and slave must be set to HSS for it to work using optical wireless. The slave does not need to talk to the camera, but it does need to discharge as a timed pulse as directed by the master/controller. My Sigma EF-610 DG Super allows both to be set and it is my understanding that Pentax flash support the same (see addendum below). Addendum: On review of how my Sigma works, only the master/controller may be set to HSS. The slave follows orders to support same. The AF360/540FGZ II are similar only the manual says to explicitly set the sync on the slave to leading curtain (manual page 61ff). The instructions are similar for the AF360/540FGZ (v1). I would expect that Metz may use the same convention on their P-TTL flash that support HSS, but tests would be required to confirm. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 02-05-2021 at 01:40 PM. Reason: Accuracy and completeness

02-05-2021, 02:51 AM	#38
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot My Sigma EF-610 DG Super allows both to be set and it is my understanding that Pentax flash support the same. Sigma don't sell it for Pentax anymore...

08-02-2021, 08:02 AM	#40
AfterPentax Mark II Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2021 Posts: 1,461	Originally posted by stevebrot This is sad news and it is hard to say what role the flash division played in the insolvency. There is stiff competition in that market in general; note the recent loss of Cactus as well. Steve It did not play a big part. Their problem was that they developed an e-bike the Metz Moover and they could not sell it due to the high pricing of this e-bike/scooter.

08-03-2021, 05:08 AM	#41
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot They don't sell it for anyone anymore. I mentioned the Sigma only as an example, but on review, I was incorrect to infer that both the master/controller and slave must be set for optical wireless HSS. The slave will follow the master. Didb't see your answer... They are still selling the EF-140S for dp Quattro and EF-630 for Canon, Nikon and Sigma...

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08-04-2021, 06:49 PM - 1 Like	#42
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Manufacturers from (notably China) has moved up and eaten a big piece of the pie while smaller makers nibble too at the low end of 'dummy flashes', and TBH, Metz has not innovated much. I still recall the poverty wizards (many versions all under then model PT-04 )from YongNuo as being finicky stuff, but companies such as these moved up their game, to radio wireless > integration into their flash > flash grouping > Master controllers. They improved massively in quality too. Later, ones like Godox came up with HSS, radio wireless HSS, PTTL. No more legacy optical (can be blocked) triggering, opened up the possibilities greatly (which Metz is still stuck in; as with even Pentax) Sad to see Metz being insolvent again, but it does show that competitors that were laughed at a few years ago are not sleeping.

08-05-2021, 01:05 AM	#43
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by pinholecam Sad to see Metz being insolvent again, but it does show that competitors that were laughed at a few years ago are not sleeping. I think it is definitively over now. The profitable parts (TVs and eScooter) has been saved and the rest has been trashed...

08-05-2021, 05:13 PM - 1 Like	#44
pinholecam Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: North Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,706	Originally posted by fs999 I think it is definitively over now. The profitable parts (TVs and eScooter) has been saved and the rest has been trashed... Really unfortunate. I started off with their flash (think it was the 36 or 44 ... been 13-15yrs ) Was actually looking at the very small Mecablitz 26 for portability and macro purposes recently.

08-05-2021, 11:58 PM	#45
fs999 Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Luxembourg Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,636 Original Poster	Originally posted by pinholecam Really unfortunate. I started off with their flash (think it was the 36 or 44 ... been 13-15yrs ) Was actually looking at the very small Mecablitz 26 for portability and macro purposes recently. I began with Metz when Braun stopped to make the best flashes in the world, what else to do... I use now more often my M400 in place of the 52AF-1 for macros. There are a lot for sale around...