[biz-engineer]

Looking at the trend in the last few years, I've notice steady increase of camera prices.
I've also seen more and more non-Japanese lens makes: Samyang, Irix, TT Artisan, Viltrox, Mitakon ZY Optics , are growing.
I remember very well, when TV sets and mobile phones were still made in Europe, Chinese started to enter the bottom of the market by attacking on prices, until they managed to take the whole market away from European players. With steady increase of camera prices, and no low cost camera models offered, aren't Japanese companies running the risk to let an empty market space for lower priced digital cameras, where Chinese could enter and expand from there, as they have done with other markets?

[pschlute]

I remember very well, when TV sets and mobile phones were still made in Europe

You must be a lot older than me then.

[biz-engineer]

You must be a lot older than me then.

It's just that TV makers and mobile phone makers became extinct in the UK before being totally extinct in other parts of Europe? At some point, if I remember correctly, the UK "decided" to switch to a service economy, while lots of other European countries hanged on the old "manufacturing" model for a while, before realizing that everything went to China.

[stevejo]

Cello still make TVs in the UK. Home - Cello Electronics (UK) Ltd
There is also Roberts radio so all is not lost in the UK.

[Sandy Hancock]

You must be a lot older than me then.

You never heard of Nokia (Finnish) or Ericsson (Swedish) phones, or Blaupunkt (German) or Philips (Dutch) TV's?

Now I'm feeling old

[starjedi]

I am not worrying about this situation based on several points:

• Camera market is shrinking rapidly due to booming of mobile phones and advance of portable photography technology. The market will be smaller and smaller. It is a trend. We will see that the price will be higher and higher. Pentax K3-III is believed to be priced at $2000-$3000. Consumers benefit from mass production.

• Competition typically is a good thing and manufacturers will focus more on technology advance (like Sony Alpha 1 announced today) in answers to their competitors.

• Innovation is a key. Just like Venus Optics, I think that their products like 100mm APO 2:1 macro really provide alternative product choices. You cannot win the market by building a $50 50mm 1.8 medicore lens or $500 full frame mirrorless with only 100 shutter counts.

Looking at the trend in the last few years, I've notice steady increase of camera prices.
I've also seen more and more non-Japanese lens makes: Samyang, Irix, TT Artisan, Viltrox, Mitakon ZY Optics , are growing.
I remember very well, when TV sets and mobile phones were still made in Europe, Chinese started to enter the bottom of the market by attacking on prices, until they managed to take the whole market away from European players. With steady increase of camera prices, and no low cost camera models offered, aren't Japanese companies running the risk to let an empty market space for lower priced digital cameras, where Chinese could enter and expand from there, as they have done with other markets?

[TonyW]

Well Cello have also acquired Ferguson from France and will be manufacturing here. So more UK choice but....

FWIW bought a 22” Cello 12/240 volt, so called smart TV and not too impressed. Picture quality average, sound the worst I have ever heard from any TV. The worst part though was the fact that the advertised services such as Netflix etc. could not be downloaded due to a very outdated Android OS (v5?), apps no longer compatible and no way to upgrade. Returned to supplier as unfit for purpose. Net chatter seemed to indicate my experience not unusual.

Still needed 12volt TV so bit the bullet and bought Avtex 19.5”. Avtex based in Cardiff (Wales). TV manufactured in China! But quality wise wipes the floor with Cello, picture quality super, sound quality acceptable to good. Guess a case of you get what you pay for?

My point being that quality should count and if countries like China, Korea can keep quality high and manufacturing costs low then they are in a strong position. China and Taiwan capable of producing good optics and Samsung, LG cornered the market on display manufacturing.

---

Last edited by TonyW; 01-26-2021 at 03:06 PM.

[Michail_P]

Isn’t Irix Swiss or something? Anyway...
There’s a good point there. Low cost manufacturing is increasing and that is bringing higher prices for higher quality products. Although a best friend says “China makes what is paid to make”... so the decision is not the contractor’s but the designers’. At least for the big brands that move facilities to China.

[house]

You cannot win the market by building a $50 50mm 1.8 medicore lens

But you learn how to make great lenses by doing mediocre ones. Then you get to manufacture for main brands. Then you have all the skills, experience and knowledge to innovate the old brands into the ground.

[pschlute]

You never heard of Nokia (Finnish) or Ericsson (Swedish) phones, or Blaupunkt (German) or Philips (Dutch) TV's?

Now I'm feeling old

I Know all of those names. owned a Nokia phone and a Philips TV at one point. Don't think many components were made in Europe though ?

When I was in college around 1980 I would deliver TV's on a Saturday to pay for my studies. Yes there were Philips and Ferguson, but most folk were buying Sony and Panasonic and Sanyo and JVC and Sharp

[AggieDad]

It has been a natural progression since the end of World War II.

First Japan. Then South Korea, Now China. Next?

You speak of camera lenses, but is really all products. Electronics. Optics. Heavy machinery. Tractors. Automobiles. ...

I am old enough to remember when goods from Japan were stamped "Made in Occupied Japan." Then it was just cheap toys and nails of such bad steel they would bend used on anything harder than white pine. Into the late '60s Toyota and Datsun (now Nissan) stuck their toes into the waters of automobiles with designs that were laughable. But they worked and improved until today Japanese goods are, in many cases, a world standard. As the Japanese shifted their focus to quality rather than price, the South Koreans slid into the position of the low price supplier. But they also continued to grow and improve and today Korean goods stand with the best of them. Now China is the low cost provider. But I am sure they will follow (are following) the same pattern, and soon their goods and prices will be competitive.

I don't know who will follow China, but I suspect I will not be around to find out. In the mean time, my hobby's meager budget enjoys the low cost little electronic "tinker toys" that China supplies me. Forty-five years ago these toys would have been stamped "Made in Japan."

[BigMackCam]

Cello still make TVs in the UK. Home - Cello Electronics (UK) Ltd
There is also Roberts radio so all is not lost in the UK.

I have a Cello Android TV.

They're made in the UK, yes... as in, assembled... but all the components and boards are Chinese. None the worse for it, mind you... Chinese doesn't have to mean "poor quality". It does, however, mean "far cheaper to produce" than any UK or European manufacturer could possibly achieve...

[JensE]

Now China is the low cost provider.

In the photo industry, I think we're seeing China just go past the budget manufacturing phase. The Laowa lens range include niche products, which almost nobody else designs and even with a few quirks, optical quality of several of them is with the best. The Godox flash range is unique with a consistent control protocol from tiny 2xAA-powered speedlights to battery powered and studio monolights, all working across brands, most with TLL support and/or HSS for nearly all cameras. That's unmatched in the industry, as far as I can tell. They may not be the very top end with respect to quality, but close in terms of innovation.

[tokyoscape]

...before realizing that everything went to China.

Yeah, agree and I think most countries in the free world shift from Agriculture to Manufacturing to Service Economy as their economic and social wellbeing progress. As of China, they too entering service economy but being a communize country, the government can dictate what part of the country and population get to do what and when to change. For example, Hong Kong is a Service economy, but not everyone in China can move and work there whenever they want. Their government can basically tell, Ok this is Agriculture area, this is Manufacture area, over there are Service lead area, etc. You are born here, you get to stay & work in whatever job available in your local area. Something like that would never happened to the free word's countries. We are playing the same game on a difference set of rules with them. Our politicians in the free world need to be more unified and be smart. It is not like everyone enter WTO and we are using the same rules, no, it is not.

[Sandy Hancock]

Just a heads up: this discussion is leaning towards politics, and if that continues the thread won't last long as such topics are explicitly forbidden here.

Please keep it about photography