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09-18-2021, 03:22 PM   #16
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Not going out, but my camera does

Very very ideally the next camera will wander by itself through the streets, woods and nature and make superb pictures that astonish you. The only thing the photographer does is charge its batteries! The only problem for the manufacturer is how to let it move!

09-18-2021, 07:08 PM   #17
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Pentax...before Covid released new cameras after very long intervals...small company, small number sold, not going to compete with Canon, Nikon, etc. So even now I do not expect any new models released for quite a while. The biggest problem all companies will have is getting enough computer chips and manufacturing time due to Covid. Just look at the car manufacturing business...car plants are idle everywhere due to a shortage of chips. And some companies, like Nikon, come out with new cameras and then cannot deliver enough product because of production shortages. This is going to take a long time until manufacturing of any kind returns to pre Covid numbers.
09-18-2021, 07:11 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Leaving Canon off the list makes no sense
I haven’t been remembering the details, but I have received several very excited emails from B&H/Adorama/Robert’s about new EOS-R bodies. Exactly how many MILCs have they released this year? And, frankly, Ricoh had been releasing only one a year in recent time, and the K-3iii and GRiii seem to be both winners - the K-3iii should not be viewed as “just another K-3”; their new focusing could bring new life to other lines by March or a little later.
09-18-2021, 10:45 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Ideally a dslr would be able to use machine learning and fine tune PDAF to match true focus perhaps using shots made with CDAF in succession with the first shot or just shooting multiple shots and adjusting focus between these shots and then comparing focus at the selected focus point.
About that aspect of lens AF calibration, it should be available as a option along with sensor cleaning. When we buy a new lens we should be able to mount it on tripod aimed at a newspaper target and let the camera go through a focus calibration routine. The thing to have AF fine tune option but let the user do it manually is even more prone to error than a software algorithm as part of the camera firmware. Nikon did it, but Canon and Ricoh didn't seem to bother.

---------- Post added 19-09-21 at 07:48 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
The biggest opportunity for improvement in still image IQ would come from replacing the Bayer filter design with some clever way of getting good red, green, and blue data from every pixel.
That pixel shift is definitely underrated, unfortunately doesn't end-up well with moving subjects.

---------- Post added 19-09-21 at 07:51 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ffking Quote
Leaving Canon off the list makes no sense
Ouppss, only Canon pushing out new cameras in 2021?

---------- Post added 19-09-21 at 07:52 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by AfterPentax Mark II Quote
The only thing the photographer does is charge its batteries! The only problem for the manufacturer is how to let it move!
Problem solved, it's a drone.

09-19-2021, 02:44 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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I'm sure there will be new cameras.

Much of this comes down to sensor development (or lack thereof). Sony has a lot of different sensors they make these days. The differences mostly come down to megapixels and frame rates. Otherwise, for a given sensor size, all of them seem to give similar dynamic range an high iso performance. I guess that's fine, but it means that the differences in cameras come down to the features a camera brand chooses to enable in firmware -- and how good an EVF they put in it.
09-19-2021, 11:16 PM   #21
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For me, sensors became good enough around the time of Kx, K5.
DR and high iso became good enough for normal viewing in most situations what I shot in.
K1 moved this up another notch and in fact, I liked my Sony A7 at 24mp as a comfortable sweet spot for file size and I could cheat a little downsizing it to 2400x1600 for a file that was shot in very high ISO, a little OOF or pushed alot for the DR.


There hasn't been a great deal of improvements for the sensor and I have slowed down my camera purchases since K5.

Lately, I got hold of a A7iii and am happy that I had 'switched off' chasing the constant marketing hype, because the improvements were with AF (A LOT ), eye focus and some features.
Also the many AF lens options that are now available for the system.
Nothing to do with the sensor though.
No need to waste money going thru A7, A7ii, A7iii, and god knows the other in-between variants (ie. A7s; A7Rii/iii etc )
Though I mentioned a lot about Sony, it applies to all the other camera brands.

Bottom line, the hype in the camera market is over, covid has not helped with the lack of travelling and cameras from even 5yrs ago are really good enough for most photography.
09-20-2021, 07:43 AM   #22
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Digital formats stop around 33x44mm, 40x54mm, while film formats extended to 8x10 inches and even larger. On the other hand, tiny sensors in smartphones are very popular. Why is it so? Is probably only in the camera business that modern equipment didn't surpass century old film technology?

09-20-2021, 09:03 AM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Digital formats stop around 33x44mm, 40x54mm, while film formats extended to 8x10 inches and even larger. On the other hand, tiny sensors in smartphones are very popular. Why is it so? Is probably only in the camera business that modern equipment didn't surpass century old film technology?
There are larger format digital cameras… but the cost becomes staggering. LargeSense LS911 Hands-On: The First Digital Large Format Camera | PetaPixel

The silicon yields in large sensors are bad. The LS911 has a 12mp sensor that is 9” x 11”, but the sensor is broken into 4 parts likely to reduce costs and the camera is still $106,000.00 - and it is monochrome only and has a base iso of 2100.
09-20-2021, 10:16 AM - 2 Likes   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Digital formats stop around 33x44mm, 40x54mm, while film formats extended to 8x10 inches and even larger. On the other hand, tiny sensors in smartphones are very popular. Why is it so? Is probably only in the camera business that modern equipment didn't surpass century old film technology?
Two big reasons:

First, silicon is probably the most expensive real estate on the planet. If a semiconductor maker can get say $10 for a smartphone sensor that is 24 sq mm (that's $38,700 per sq ft), how much would they want to charge for making a 4"x5" sensor (13,000 sq mm)? In contrast, Kodak got really good at slathering the dozen some-odd layers of a color film emulsion onto a wide roll of polymer filmbase (probably costing only a few bucks per sq ft).

Second, film emulsions are more robust to microscopic defects -- they only affect a tiny tiny bit of one image on one roll of film. In contrast, any defect in a semiconductor sensor affects every image made with the camera and many kinds of semiconductor defects potentially knock-out an entire row, column, or sector of the sensor. As UncleVanya said, the yields are much worse on large chips.
09-20-2021, 11:18 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dartmoor Dave Quote
Any photographer who can't take decent shots with the range of gear presently available will never be able to take decent shots with anything.
Absolutely.... everything now is slight improvements for niche shooters, with the exception of Fuji's 100 MP Medium format cameras.
09-21-2021, 08:22 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Aren't the cameras we've already got good enough to take first rate photos?
Good question. We may be getting to the point of diminishing returns on MP count. Faster AF and better metering will always be useful, but we may be at the point where resolution is high enough to satisfy most people. It's sort of like cars. The fast supercars look good, but most people are happy with the much less expensive family sedan or SUV.
09-21-2021, 11:32 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Digital formats stop around 33x44mm, 40x54mm, while film formats extended to 8x10 inches and even larger. On the other hand, tiny sensors in smartphones are very popular. Why is it so? Is probably only in the camera business that modern equipment didn't surpass century old film technology?
Space.

You need a certain distance between lens and sensor in order to get a big sensor. Smart phones have a big incentive to be very thin, which by necessity means small sensor. Some cameras have a little bump-out for the camera lens, but it's still not a lot. But it's good enough for social media, which is the main consumer of photos.

QuoteOriginally posted by photoptimist Quote
First, silicon is probably the most expensive real estate on the planet. If a semiconductor maker can get say $10 for a smartphone sensor that is 24 sq mm (that's $38,700 per sq ft), how much would they want to charge for making a 4"x5" sensor (13,000 sq mm)? In contrast, Kodak got really good at slathering the dozen some-odd layers of a color film emulsion onto a wide roll of polymer filmbase (probably costing only a few bucks per sq ft).
You really need to think about price per photo, not price per sq. ft.

---------- Post added 09-21-21 at 11:45 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
Aren't the cameras we've already got good enough to take first rate photos?
Probably explains why many cameras still on the market were designed 5+ years ago. Most technology (tablets, phones, computers) would not be relevant at that age.
But there are new features that can be incorporated. I would have liked bluetooth on my camera for instance, for remote shutter control and possibly for the phone to operate as remote viewfinder. Also, not sure what's going on with HDR in the K-70, first tests give a cartoony result, totally unusable. That should be fixed.

I've also read about a multiple sensor format that allows you to set the bokeh in post-production. Probably not compatible with existing lens though... it's been a while since I read about that, can't remember the technical details.

Last edited by bogwalker; 09-21-2021 at 11:52 AM. Reason: forum didn't handle back-to-back posts well
09-21-2021, 12:34 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by butchblack Quote
Faster AF and better metering will always be useful,
But perhaps, un-necssary. Metering won't be perfect until the camera knows what you are thinking, how you want the scene metered and what the subject is. Like people, sometimes it's harder to teach computerized things to do something than it is to just do it yourself.

I think I'd like a bit faster AF, but I haven't invested in a Katie, and so far, I haven't wanted to pay the cost. Regardless of brand, faster AF has always been out of my price range. Faster AF has been available if needed for a very long time, just not with Pentax. But those who wanted it have gone for it. The camera industry isn't only about Pentax.

Last edited by normhead; 09-21-2021 at 12:44 PM.
09-21-2021, 01:02 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by bogwalker Quote
You really need to think about price per photo, not price per sq. ft.
Maybe.... Most consumers are much more sensitive to the up-front price of a product than to the life-time price.

The $100,000 price of LS-911 sounds outrageous. However, given the current $20-$30 per shot cost of large format film (and that doesn't include developing!), that's about the same price as buying a large format film camera and then only averaging just 1 picture per day for a plausible 10-year life of the camera. (No doubt, some large format shooters average less than 1 picture per day but I'd bet some professionals go well above that which makes the LS-911 a real money-saving option.)
09-21-2021, 01:48 PM   #30
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I say give me a 24mp WR Pentax body with focus bracketing and I would never need a new camera again.
Honestly I can't imagine what camera companies will come up with to continue existing. We're close to camera being pefrect instruments for still photography.
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