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01-17-2022, 12:30 AM - 8 Likes   #16
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Robert Frank’s classic The Americans has 83 photographs in it, shot in the 1950s. To get to those 83, he shot almost 28,000 in the heydays of film.

I’ll just park that thought there.

01-17-2022, 12:38 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
That's why photographers need 30 frames per second and 500 auto-focus points. Close your eyes, press the shutter button and hope for the best. That's the way it is now, accept it.


She was smart because she had relationship with her customer. Photography skills didn't matter much if you didn't have a personal relationship, hence were no allowed to take pictures out of the car.
I was uncle of the bride, i wasnt allowed to do photo work because the photographer was hired by the crazy mother of the groom. And the mother of the bride felt that it wouldnt be a good idea for me to outstage the so called professional photogrpaher.

Although when the wedding photos came back, Only one was considered good enough by the bride to have PRINTED out.

I saw some of the digital photos, and everything was shot on auto exposure, everythign was at lowest aperture number, could barely see SHAPES in them. The photoshop was ridiculous. Really to have pumpkins floating around the wedding party like UFOs?
01-17-2022, 12:59 AM - 1 Like   #18
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The job of the professional photographer is to produce reliably better results than the average Joe with a cmaera. Unfortunately this requires a certain amount of image literacy on behalf of the client, and not just being impressed by fancy gear or good social skills - though both help. The truth is that taking properly exposed, in focus pictures is open to anybody with the money to spend now, but I think that there is a bit of a lag where non-photographers are still impressed by those things whereas they should be demanding something more. Yup! - I blame the clients!

Last edited by ffking; 01-17-2022 at 03:36 AM. Reason: typo
01-17-2022, 01:17 AM - 3 Likes   #19
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I remember being at a social event on one occasion, and some pretentious person looked at my camera and asked me whether it was a 'professional' or 'semi-professional' camera. I replied that it depended on who was using it.

I know there's been a bit of an idea floating around for years that if you buy an expensive DSLR or I guess now, MILC, you somehow instantly become a professional.

Someone who really knows the craft of photography could produce amazing images whether they're given a smartphone, a pinhole camera, a DSLR or whatever. Each have their strengths and weaknesses, but used within their capabilities, each can produce pleasing images.
As for post processing, these days, most of mine consists of raw adjustments to tweak the lighting, especially for really contrasty scenes, and dust spot removal if there is any, and noise reduction.
I have Photoshop, and have a reasonable idea of how to use it, but because natural history is a major interest, I need authentic images. Tweaking the colour a bit to be more pleasing I think is acceptable, as different organisms themselves have different levels of colour vision, so saying that the colour has to be exactly as the camera saw it makes no biological sense if I think I saw it differently.

Where Photoshop is interesting, is for storytelling beyond what can be done in camera. I think there are some interesting composite images that are clever that I can appreciate, but using Photoshop to correct for not using the camera properly in the first place seems like a bit of a fail to me.

01-17-2022, 01:31 AM - 2 Likes   #20
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Got to applaud the replies to this thread for remaining helpful. For what it's worth, courses and exams rarely cover the 'complete' or 'exact' information that a student expects- I'm an ex-lecturer and course designer, and this is often due to awarding bodie's demands on content based on an average approach (at least in the UK).

Photography....well, I've been enjoying this hobby for only a couple of years now; being of a middle age where I remember first playing with film cameras pre-digital and also being in education when digital was rolling in. Been in the same mind at times when starting about a perceived ease to create an image that wasn't really seen thanks to digital software...but thanks to spending time engaging with other open minds here, and just getting used to using a programme, I've come to a thought that people are partial to a nice piece of gatekeeping pie; and really, it's all personal and subjective- no two people share the same sight or view exactly.

There's too much pretentious grandstanding from a casual observation within some corners of the photography hobby- even down to titles, yet it is a creative expression, which rarely gives a damn about formal blessings of skill on paper.

Sounds like the bride and family had made their decision and we're trying to get the real event of the day enjoyed 🙂
01-17-2022, 01:33 AM - 2 Likes   #21
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You mention several other unnamed forums of which you have been a member. Are you no longer a member of them, and if not, why ?
01-17-2022, 02:00 AM - 1 Like   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by 35mmfilmfan Quote
You mention several other unnamed forums of which you have been a member. Are you no longer a member of them, and if not, why ?
have been on many of them, some of them multiple times just for something to pass the time with.

Some have been extremely disgusting to deal with. Some have been riddled with politics that make Nazi Germany look like a nice place to live, Others have been controlled and manipulate din ways that only a KGB agent would appreciate.

One british site kicked me off because i suggested "get a dslr" to a person who asked why they couldnt find a BRIDGE camera such as a Nikon Coolpix couldnt be gotten with removable lenses.

Another british site kicked me off when a member, who was friends with an actors guild i a rather old coastal town in ireland asked for photo ideas, and i suggested historical based events to be used, such as press gangs at midnight carrying folks off. SOMEhow that got me the boot for "racial/sexual harrassemtn clause violation"

Purpleport has done me in several times. Once for asking why a person taking the photos has no right to pose a model via moving the arms.. Once for informing them that they needed to stop evaluating events in america based upon uk/eu POLITICAL BELIEFS.

other american forums have done me in quite a bit. Mostly for being some cranky guy for asking questions or openly doubting the ability of others. For example one bounced me out because i refused to listen to someone who was a "professional photographer" for taking iphone photos of his meals when i asked a film camera quesiton. And so forth.

Another nameless one, booted me for questioning the merits of using race and gender as a qualifier in determining who should get jobs in photography. For some reason, its racist to think that a persons SKILL should be more important then sex or race.

01-17-2022, 02:22 AM - 1 Like   #23
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I feel some of your pain. My daughter got married six years ago at a small and beautiful castle in Kent. The photographer (who my daughter had found on the Internet) didn’t try to prevent anyone taking photos but just got on with it with his Canon 5D mk II, and seemed reasonable. When the photos were delivered though, they were pretty much all over-contrasty, with a granular feel to the images and what I can only describe as a brown tinge to them. Also, he had uniformly applied a vignette to every single picture (or else his lens had a real issue).

I was very disappointed with them but was encouraged by my better half not to say anything…
01-17-2022, 02:25 AM   #24
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Photography dead because of digital PP instead of physical gear? Why? Is there a difference between ability to choose proper light filter on the lens and proper setting in post? Both require knowledge and skill. Is there a difference between choosing slide film and choosing proper setting in post? Both require knowledge and skill. Has photography died when it move from big clunky boxes to handheld film cameras that could be used by common Joe? And then when it moved from rangefinder to SLR and so on? Of course not.


I really do not know from where all this "photography is dead" comes from. Photography is more alive now then ever before as it is available to anyone. Free of charge, comes with your personal pocket computer in form of smartphone.
01-17-2022, 02:54 AM - 1 Like   #25
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It's very possible that pro-photograhers don't deliver the best pictures , not as good as pictures a hobby photographer. The pro-photographer is under time pressure, has to make money, move to next customer (or other part time job). The hobby photographer may spend hours tweaking lights and camera settings without counting the hourly costs.
01-17-2022, 03:01 AM - 9 Likes   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmmaster Quote
have been on many of them, some of them multiple times just for something to pass the time with.

Some have been extremely disgusting to deal with. Some have been riddled with politics that make Nazi Germany look like a nice place to live, Others have been controlled and manipulate din ways that only a KGB agent would appreciate.

One british site kicked me off because i suggested "get a dslr" to a person who asked why they couldnt find a BRIDGE camera such as a Nikon Coolpix couldnt be gotten with removable lenses.

Another british site kicked me off when a member, who was friends with an actors guild i a rather old coastal town in ireland asked for photo ideas, and i suggested historical based events to be used, such as press gangs at midnight carrying folks off. SOMEhow that got me the boot for "racial/sexual harrassemtn clause violation"

Purpleport has done me in several times. Once for asking why a person taking the photos has no right to pose a model via moving the arms.. Once for informing them that they needed to stop evaluating events in america based upon uk/eu POLITICAL BELIEFS.

other american forums have done me in quite a bit. Mostly for being some cranky guy for asking questions or openly doubting the ability of others. For example one bounced me out because i refused to listen to someone who was a "professional photographer" for taking iphone photos of his meals when i asked a film camera quesiton. And so forth.

Another nameless one, booted me for questioning the merits of using race and gender as a qualifier in determining who should get jobs in photography. For some reason, its racist to think that a persons SKILL should be more important then sex or race.
Says it all, really. May I recommend Dale Carnegie 'How to make friends' ? You may find it interesting.
01-17-2022, 03:21 AM - 10 Likes   #27
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All real photographers make daguerrotypes , there's been no skill in photography since film started coming in rolls.
01-17-2022, 03:49 AM - 10 Likes   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by filmmaster Quote
have been on many of them, some of them multiple times just for something to pass the time with.

Some have been extremely disgusting to deal with. Some have been riddled with politics that make Nazi Germany look like a nice place to live, Others have been controlled and manipulate din ways that only a KGB agent would appreciate.

One british site kicked me off because i suggested "get a dslr" to a person who asked why they couldnt find a BRIDGE camera such as a Nikon Coolpix couldnt be gotten with removable lenses.

Another british site kicked me off when a member, who was friends with an actors guild i a rather old coastal town in ireland asked for photo ideas, and i suggested historical based events to be used, such as press gangs at midnight carrying folks off. SOMEhow that got me the boot for "racial/sexual harrassemtn clause violation"

Purpleport has done me in several times. Once for asking why a person taking the photos has no right to pose a model via moving the arms.. Once for informing them that they needed to stop evaluating events in america based upon uk/eu POLITICAL BELIEFS.

other american forums have done me in quite a bit. Mostly for being some cranky guy for asking questions or openly doubting the ability of others. For example one bounced me out because i refused to listen to someone who was a "professional photographer" for taking iphone photos of his meals when i asked a film camera quesiton. And so forth.

Another nameless one, booted me for questioning the merits of using race and gender as a qualifier in determining who should get jobs in photography. For some reason, its racist to think that a persons SKILL should be more important then sex or race.
Just as photography requires skill and technique behind the camera, participating in online communities requires some skill and technique behind the keyboard. What we say is important, but also how we phrase it and the manner in which we present. It benefits from an appreciation of, and adherence to, current social norms when dealing with potentially sensitive topics, careful use of associated terminology, healthy doses of tolerance, tact and diplomacy, and adherence to membership and posting rules. Generally, folks in these communities want to enjoy their involvement and get on well with each other, and they don't like it when someone upsets the apple cart.

Over my years on PentaxForums I've seen quite a few members come and go, some with much useful knowledge and opinion to share who nonetheless seemed unable to do so in a manner that endeared them to other members and/or moderators. There are countless ways to say essentially the same thing; to get the same message across... but some folks don't put much thought into it. Most of us manage to tick someone off occasionally (I know I have ), usually unintentionally - but some make a habit of it, and some even seem intent on it. A small few such members still participate here, but not many. Most have either been banned or choose not to post any more (or only post infrequently).

Being booted from one online community is unfortunate, but I guess it could happen to anyone. Being booted from multiple communities might suggest there's a common underlying reason. I'm not saying you're at fault - but you might consider whether a different approach in your posting could have avoided any reaction, and prevent it from happening in future. We can all use an occasional reset

Last edited by BigMackCam; 01-17-2022 at 04:22 AM.
01-17-2022, 04:28 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Robert Frank’s classic The Americans has 83 photographs in it, shot in the 1950s. To get to those 83, he shot almost 28,000 in the heydays of film.
Another counter example would be I took one picture and I got two keepers: one color photograph and one b&w photograph.

---------- Post added 17-01-22 at 12:31 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by filmmaster Quote
she couldnt PUT A LENS HOOD on the lens..
Lens without hood is like goulash without paprika, or brezel without beer, you see what I mean.
01-17-2022, 04:34 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Another counter example would be I took one picture and I got two keepers: one color photograph and one b&w photograph.
Sure, but how many pictures had you taken with all sorts of cameras and lenses in all sorts of conditions prior to taking that one image? All that experience led you take that image at that time and place with the proper settings based on all previous experience, as well as the self-critique and comments from other which led you to refine gear choices, attend to your settings, and hone your technique. All these things are neccessary to achieve some level of proficiency which hopefully leads to mastery of one's craft.
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