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02-23-2022, 09:42 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by house Quote
That's not how it works. Like with everything else peoples choices aren't made like that from a free critical position. Owning 50% of the market means they have considerable leverage against consumers.
Why complicate things? No one is making people buy their products. If they sell more cameras than everyone else combined, it just means that most people like their products.

If they start using their market share "against consumers" (whatever that means in practice) people will start buying something else and the share will decrease. But on average, it's been increasing. I can't see how anyone can deny that they are doing something very right.

02-23-2022, 10:00 PM   #17
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Canon announces $17K 800mm F5.6, $20K 1200mm F8 lenses for RF mount. Money is just a number. And they plan to grow the camera market. We all need a job upgrade.
02-23-2022, 10:59 PM - 2 Likes   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Canon announces $17K 800mm F5.6, $20K 1200mm F8 lenses for RF mount.
A Leica S3 body costs circa $30K Australian.You either have money to burn, or you don't.
02-24-2022, 12:39 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Canon announces $17K 800mm F5.6, $20K 1200mm F8 lenses for RF mount.
The only people likely to buy such glass are lens rental businesses, major news corporations and professionals with very specialised needs. Have you ever seen such lenses? The only time I did was on the airport trolley of a major newspaper’s photographer who had been trying to shoot the British royal family when they didn’t want to be photographed. The thing looked like a missile launcher.

02-24-2022, 02:18 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
The only people likely to buy such glass are lens rental businesses
Rental, yes, makes perfect sense to me.
02-24-2022, 07:21 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Canon announces $17K 800mm F5.6, $20K 1200mm F8 lenses for RF mount. Money is just a number. And they plan to grow the camera market. We all need a job upgrade.
Canon "buys" most of them and rent them out at major sport events like the olympics...
02-24-2022, 07:29 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by subsea Quote
Interesting story about Canon killing off many of its DSLR lenses outside the US without warning. Even in the US many of the remaining lenses are in very short supply:

https://www.popphoto.com/gear/canon-discontinues-dslr-lenses/
Yes well, no surprise there. I think I predicted this several months ago. Canon is moving towards mirrorless, and the EF users are going to be left in the cold.

02-24-2022, 07:32 AM - 1 Like   #23
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All DSLR lens line-ups are going, except for Pentax. Sony recently confirmed that the A mount is dead. I think Nikon have also unofficially discontinued lenses.

As for Canon's history of abandoning mounts, I think their mirrorless APS-C mount is also dead. It makes no sense to have two different mounts and even Nikon have models with an APS-C sensor in them, despite the unnecessarily large mount for that sensor format.

The most common F and EF lenses will still be made for some time I suspect but if you're using anything out of the ordinary then you may find it difficult to replace in the not-too-distant future.
02-24-2022, 07:34 AM - 1 Like   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
People like to criticize Canon's business practices and lack of backwards support, but don't they own more than 50% of the market now? That means most people agree with what they do.

I don't use Canon and I love Pentax's support of older lenses, but I think it's hard to argue with Canon's results.
This is another way of saying the end justifies the means and is nothing more than an apology for bad behaviour. Just because liars succeed doesn't make lying good, it just means liars are often successful at lurching the gullible.

---------- Post added Feb 24th, 2022 at 08:40 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Why complicate things? No one is making people buy their products. If they sell more cameras than everyone else combined, it just means that most people like their products.

If they start using their market share "against consumers" (whatever that means in practice) people will start buying something else and the share will decrease. But on average, it's been increasing. I can't see how anyone can deny that they are doing something very right.
What they are doing is successful. Right or wrong is a separate issue. And to be fair to Canon, I am making presumptions of future performance based on past performance. They may or may not screw over their present user base, but history has shown us that they are willing to do it without giving it a second thought.
02-24-2022, 10:29 AM - 1 Like   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
This is another way of saying the end justifies the means and is nothing more than an apology for bad behaviour. Just because liars succeed doesn't make lying good, it just means liars are often successful at lurching the gullible.
Please, come on. They're not lying about anything.

Bad behavior? That is strictly an opinion that you have. Obviously the majority of camera consumers does not agree with you at all.

Canon has a shorter life cycle for their lens mounts. They make no secret and don't lie about it. I like the longevity of the K mount but that is me, there isn't good or bad in this issue, there is just what you prefer.

Putting this as a matter of good and evil is, in my opinion, overly dramatic and misguided.

QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
What they are doing is successful. Right or wrong is a separate issue. And to be fair to Canon, I am making presumptions of future performance based on past performance. They may or may not screw over their present user base, but history has shown us that they are willing to do it without giving it a second thought.
Obviously the majority of the market does not think they are being "screwed over". They keep coming back for more Canon, and are being joined by people abandoning other systems, as their market share grows. This is a fact.
02-24-2022, 10:38 AM - 1 Like   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
Please, come on. They're not lying about anything.

Bad behavior? That is strictly an opinion that you have. Obviously the majority of camera consumers does not agree with you at all.

Canon has a shorter life cycle for their lens mounts. They make no secret and don't lie about it. I like the longevity of the K mount but that is me, there isn't good or bad in this issue, there is just what you prefer.

Putting this as a matter of good and evil is, in my opinion, overly dramatic and misguided.



Obviously the majority of the market does not think they are being "screwed over". They keep coming back for more Canon, and are being joined by people abandoning other systems, as their market share grows. This is a fact.
The old adage that those who refuse to learn from history are bound to repeat it applies here.
You might want to do your research on this.

---------- Post added Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:51 AM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It has been clear that part of the switch to mirrorless is to sell more expensive versions of lenses to people who already own a given lens in an older mount. As long as the adapters continue to work, it isn't as though you have to rush out to be a new lens, but certainly over time Canon will stop fixing the lenses and they certainly could make it that the level of auto focus or other features available with EOS lenses on their MILCs isn't at the same level as native mount RP lenses.
They can also stop making the adapter that allows the old lenses to work on the new camera, which is what they did with the short lived FD to EF adapter.
They can also limit EF lens use to certain models via firmware. I expect both scenarios are on the table if mirrorless lens sales don't meet expectations.
It's a given that repairs for FE lenses and bodies days are numbered. The easiest way to force a customer into a new product is for their old broken product to stay broken.
It's likely that it's 1987 all over again in Canonville.
History has a habit of repeating itself.

Last edited by Wheatfield; 02-24-2022 at 10:52 AM.
02-24-2022, 11:59 AM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The old adage that those who refuse to learn from history are bound to repeat it applies here.
You might want to do your research on this.

---------- Post added Feb 24th, 2022 at 11:51 AM ----------


They can also stop making the adapter that allows the old lenses to work on the new camera, which is what they did with the short lived FD to EF adapter.
They can also limit EF lens use to certain models via firmware. I expect both scenarios are on the table if mirrorless lens sales don't meet expectations.
It's a given that repairs for FE lenses and bodies days are numbered. The easiest way to force a customer into a new product is for their old broken product to stay broken.
It's likely that it's 1987 all over again in Canonville.
History has a habit of repeating itself.
I do think the most likely thing is just to make adapted lenses somewhat crippled with future iterations of their cameras. They only work with some of the auto focus points or something similar. I don't expect them to get rid of the adapter, but over time the EOS lenses will get old and without parts available, they will eventually be unfixable. Unlike manual focus lenses, which last basically forever unless they are physically damaged, auto focus lenses are more sensitive and need occasionally to have things like IS and in lens motors tweaked or even replaced.
02-24-2022, 01:23 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It's a given that repairs for FE lenses and bodies days are numbered. The easiest way to force a customer into a new product is for their old broken product to stay broken.
Thats a hypothetical given!Do you know the number?

As for forcing customers into new product? There are over 100million pieces of EF glass manufactured by Canon,people can buy used.

Sigma,Tamron Tokina can make EF mount if the demand is there.

I'm wondering if Canon has directed Sigma,Tamron Tokina and others to force the customers towards the new mount.At this stage the 3 main 3rd party players dont have any glass available in RF mount, the minor 3rd parties have a handful.

Last edited by surfar; 02-24-2022 at 01:28 PM.
02-24-2022, 03:50 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
If they [Canon] sell more cameras than everyone else combined, it just means that most people like their products.
The way the market works is much more complicated than that.

QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I can't see how anyone can deny that they are doing something very right.
Advertising?
02-24-2022, 04:15 PM - 1 Like   #30
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If people really cared so much about backwards compatibility, Pentax would be selling tons.

Truth is, the overwhelming majority of people just don't. Some once did but now they have mirrorless cameras with adapters.

I am very aware that I am a rare minority.
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