[gurn]

I'm no expert. I'm just re-collecting my Spotmatic bag.

My brother is a serious photographer though. Astronomy & landscapes. DSLR even now -- no cell phone or tablet need apply.

[Photos-by-Chas]

Totally agree. If you think all photography is looking the same (which I disagree with), there's a lot of room to make your own style, so go for it.

Regarding the proliferation of smartphone cameras, the average consumer has always gone for the point-and-shoot, that's nothing new. Smartphones have gobbled up the cheap end of the camera market, leaving mid and high level DSLR, and some mirrorless, but the cheap mirrorless I had (very portable) is no longer sold.

DSLR cameras are definitely not automating things to death. Sure, you can put it on auto and forget it if you want, but everything is available if you want it. Manual focus at the flip of a switch. When I got my K-70 last year I read through the whole Bourque manual and the user manual, I was just amazed at how many features and controls are available, so much more than the old days of my Canon AE-1. You easily have 10x the controls available today compared to what most of us grew up on. Try to think of any other device you can buy that lets you control things to that level of detail. Any other device. I'm waiting.

I see the AI in cameras as taking away the control of the photographer. DO we really want the camera to make the decision? I'll play Devil's Advocate and say driverless cars will be doing the same by taking away the control of how we navigate the roadways.

[Conrad Saya Reina]

Why?

Why will it be the end?

I use 2 Olympus digital cameras, an old Olympus M-2, a Nikon F2, and of course a Pentax 6x7. I never use any of the automatic functions on the digital cameras, except occasionally the auto focus. Using a digital camera with manual settings is similar to using a film camera. I don't see the point of "machine gun shooting"; a photographer knows when the moment has arrived to release the shutter. The rest is just instant mediocrity. I use a light meter for night photography. I went to Pratt Institute, and we were taught to take the battery out of the camera (there were just film cameras then) and learn to judge everything for yourself. Of course, Louis Muybridge used a kind of machine gun shooting style, but that's to capture motion.

[niels hansen]

While it may seem the art of photography is being ruined by ever more gimmicks on camera I am of the opinion that the best camera can not by itself make a person a photographer this is evidenced by the tremendous amount of bad pictures taken with good cameras on the internet A talented photographer cam make great pictures even with a modest camera.

I totally agree.. Any camera needs a photographer to make a good picture, not a press the buttoner.
The most obvious result of the entrance of digital is that the amount of pictures have increased astronomically, the majority( mine inclusive) are from boring to ugly. Look at Chromecast: very few interesting pictures, a lot of pictures with an odd use of PP- resulting in very strange colors and extreme contrasts. The worst is when someone reuses - copy- Ansel Adams motives and put them into PP.
The problem is that there is a path saying that new always is better than old in any aspect. If this is true is Picasso better than Rembrandt that again is better than the anonymous painters in the caves in France, f ex Lascaux. That is obvious a silly statement.
As far as I am able to evaluate my own pictures: my BW pictures from 1958 to 2012 are generally better than my digital pictures from 2012 till today. From 2012 the BW production has not the same level. I have lost some skills in exposing and darkroom, mainly due to auto . I am trying to regain the skills. My dslr are now only used in cases where a phone would be enough. My phone is not able to take pictures,.
Today I use Spotmatic and Mamiya C 330.
PS
Of cause PP is useful, if the user has discipline and not only use all the buttons on maximum.
Even if my car was able to go 200 mph its not relevant in many cases - if any.

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Last edited by niels hansen; 06-01-2022 at 05:21 AM. Reason: addition

[ThorSanchez]

This is one of the grumpiest of the grumpy old man threads we've ever had here. You could sum it up as "I'm quitting the whole photography thing because the industry didn't single-mindedly focus on the little niche I want and then stop when they got there." On top of that the OP denigrates modern cameras as cheap, disposable junk you don't have to think or have skills to use because they aren't all-manual gigapixel landscape machines.

Woe is us. Nobody has any skills and everyone mindlessly falls for whatever marketing is put in front of them.

I hope you'll all forgive me if I go out with my $2000 K-3 Mark III and take a bunch of 15 fps, 12800 ISO action shots and actually enjoy them.

[reh321]

I see the AI in cameras as taking away the control of the photographer. DO we really want the camera to make the decision? I'll play Devil's Advocate and say driverless cars will be doing the same by taking away the control of how we navigate the roadways.

With my first Pentax camera, I could use negative film or slide film with either the equivalent of ‘Av’ or ‘M’ mode. Today I can shoot completely manual or completely automatically, or anything in between and use either ‘raw’ files or JPEG files. The camera decides nothing - I am in complete control. The engineers decide nothing - they make capabilities available to me but leave the decision making to me.

[Photos-by-Chas]

This is one of the grumpiest of the grumpy old man threads we've ever had here. You could sum it up as "I'm quitting the whole photography thing because the industry didn't single-mindedly focus on the little niche I want and then stop when they got there." On top of that the OP denigrates modern cameras as cheap, disposable junk you don't have to think or have skills to use because they aren't all-manual gigapixel landscape machines.

Woe is us. Nobody has any skills and everyone mindlessly falls for whatever marketing is put in front of them.

I hope you'll all forgive me if I go out with my $2000 K-3 Mark III and take a bunch of 15 fps, 12800 ISO action shots and actually enjoy them.

As was often said in the late 1960s through the 1970s, "Different strokes for different folks."

[ThorSanchez]

Today I can shoot... completely automatically... The camera decides nothing - I am in complete control.

[ZombieArmy]

This is one of the grumpiest of the grumpy old man threads we've ever had here. You could sum it up as "I'm quitting the whole photography thing because the industry didn't single-mindedly focus on the little niche I want and then stop when they got there."

I'm more or less jaded about modern DSLRs because it's just attempting to market things that I don't care about.

On top of that the OP denigrates modern cameras as cheap, disposable junk

I find this to be a larger problem with modern electronics rather than with cameras alone. Let me know when you can find schematics and part numbers for modern DSLRs/Mirrorless cameras.

Till you can they're all disposable with an expiration date.

[Marathonianbull]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a1CcwaDtmg

Looking at how camera things evolve over the years, I feel like the digital cameras are going toward "cheap gizmo" type devices with lots of automation (no need to think, AI).
Ten years ago, a DSLR was relatively expensive device but a serious photography device with lots of manual controls, not a toy, not a gadget, the camera were was all about image quality and the skills of the photographer made a huge difference.
Then DPReview got purchased by amazon, they started to review smartphones, then drones, and video, print making almost disappeared, and now still image making is fairly low priority.
Now, what we see pervasive smartphones with their real time computer-graphic running in the background to modify images, dumping of worthless snapshots online, good high-end images are sunk into the noise.

I really don't like the idea of ILC cameras getting more and more automation, joining smartphones and drones gadgets mass produced in China, releasing disposable cameras and lenses every other year with cameras that judge what to modify on a picture.
I open DPReview webpage, they are talking about the latest must have new drones, must have new phones, must have the 12th new revolutionary filter holder in a year, must have video streaming standard on a camera, my reaction is "beurk, disgusting", gives me nausea, it's the direct opposite of getting me excited.

So yeah, it's possible that it's going to be the end of the road for my digital photography.

Leica has never sold so many cameras at record-high prices.
The funniest part of this dazzling ascent is that it also corresponds to an overall apparent reduction in gadgetry: less switches, toggles, buttons, or control wheels; even to the point of removing the entire back LCD display in some M-mount models (Leica MD, Leica M10-D, etc.)
All this ergonomic effort towards simplification, so that some enlightened users can feel a deeper connection with their subjects through more intuitive camera control.
Less is more?
Food for thought!

[ThorSanchez]

I'm more or less jaded about modern DSLRs because it's just attempting to market things that I don't care about.

So... just use a K-5 or an *ist or or a Brownie Box or whatever.

I find this to be a larger problem with modern electronics rather than with cameras alone. Let me know when you can find schematics and part numbers for modern DSLRs/Mirrorless cameras.

Till you can they're all disposable with an expiration date.

Let me know when you find someone who could easily repair the tiny, highly integrated systems in a modern camera even if they had complete schematics and part numbers. This isn't 1950s technology with vacuum tubes and single-layer boards with through-hole mounted individual components.

You seem to be using "disposable with an expiration date" as a pejorative phrase, but the combination of function and form factor of most modern electronics does not lend itself to simple, straightforward and cost-effective repairs by hobbyists.

I'm all for right to repair and availability of tools and information to do that. I would certainly do something like a K-30 solenoid fix. But I'm under no illusion that I would be able to affect major repairs on many or most of my electronics even if I had all the information in the world. And I'm okay with that, it's often the trade-off required to get huge capabilities in a tiny device.

[reh321]

I'm more or less jaded about modern DSLRs because it's just attempting to market things that I don't care about.

I’m not jaded.
Pentax keeps thinking of new things I didn’t see coming.

[texandrews]

I see the AI in cameras as taking away the control of the photographer. DO we really want the camera to make the decision?

For any camera any of us would want to own, there will always be a full manual mode. Anyway, AI is just further automation like autofocus, exposure modes, & etc. It doesn't choose your subject matter or content. I feel like that may be the new frontier for photography: interesting and compelling subject matter and content. (sarcasm alert!)

[ZombieArmy]

Let me know when you find someone who could easily repair the tiny, highly integrated systems in a modern camera even if they had complete schematics and part numbers. This isn't 1950s technology with vacuum tubes and single-layer boards with through-hole mounted individual components.

People do on board repairs for laptops in the 21st century, they can do cameras and other devices with the right tools and schematics.


The "too hard" argument is just more garbage from the electronics manufacturers, sorry that you ate it up.

[ThorSanchez]

People do on board repairs for laptops in the 21st century, they can do cameras and other devices with the right tools and schematics.


The "too hard" argument is just more garbage from the electronics manufacturers, sorry that you ate it up.

Maybe you should read through my post again before throwing insults.