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06-06-2022, 09:12 AM   #1
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Cameras and Right to Repair law in New York State

The law has been passed by the state legislature. It still needs governor signature but that's expected to happen soon. The law has curious exceptions for automobiles, home appliances, and less common items like police radios and medical devices. There's no exception for consumer cameras.

Ricoh/Pentax would have to make parts available to repair shops and consumers. We wouldn't have to ship cameras to Precision for everything.

I suppose Ricoh could stop selling anything to NY customers to skirt the law, but the loss of B&H (because they are in NY) would further cripple USA Pentax sales, and I don't know whether Amazon would get into the middle of the right to repair battle by limiting products by state. Other states also have pending right to repair laws.

Text of the NY law and status is available at https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/S4104

06-06-2022, 09:15 AM   #2
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It will be interesting to see if there are challenges to this. Some parts are potentially dangerous and there may be some unintended consequences. Not so much in the camera industry but others.
06-06-2022, 09:23 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
It will be interesting to see if there are challenges to this. Some parts are potentially dangerous and there may be some unintended consequences. Not so much in the camera industry but others.
Agreed. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the long run. Will New York residents suddenly find many manufacturers will refuse to sell goods to them?

It seems to me that the only way a Right-to-Repair law could work is if it is done at the federal gov't level, which will never happen due to the influence of the lobbyists.
06-06-2022, 09:28 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by cdw2000 Quote
Agreed. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the long run. Will New York residents suddenly find many manufacturers will refuse to sell goods to them?

It seems to me that the only way a Right-to-Repair law could work is if it is done at the federal gov't level, which will never happen due to the influence of the lobbyists.
We have car specific legislation in places like CA - so there is some tolerance if the market is large enough. I would expect in a case like this - if it is upheld they won't be able to really limit it as people in NY will resell the items... big can of worms but welcome in my mind. Time will tell...

06-06-2022, 09:34 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
The law has been passed by the state legislature. It still needs governor signature but that's expected to happen soon. The law has curious exceptions for automobiles, home appliances, and less common items like police radios and medical devices. There's no exception for consumer cameras.

Ricoh/Pentax would have to make parts available to repair shops and consumers. We wouldn't have to ship cameras to Precision for everything.

I suppose Ricoh could stop selling anything to NY customers to skirt the law, but the loss of B&H (because they are in NY) would further cripple USA Pentax sales, and I don't know whether Amazon would get into the middle of the right to repair battle by limiting products by state. Other states also have pending right to repair laws.

Text of the NY law and status is available at https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2021/S4104
B&H operates in NJ for its warehouse and fulfillment, does it not? If not already their own corporate entities it's a simple matter of fictions on paper to make it so.
06-06-2022, 10:01 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by cdw2000 Quote
It seems to me that the only way a Right-to-Repair law could work is if it is done at the federal gov't level, which will never happen due to the influence of the lobbyists.
Doing it at the federal level seems smart, efficient, and consistent, but those things are too often ignored in a patchwork legal system. My expectation is that more states will pass their own right to repair in coming years, and the confusing fragmentation will have manufacturers crying for national repair regulations.
06-06-2022, 10:04 AM   #7
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Have you seen Apple's home repair kit? It weighs 79 lbs and comes in two large cases...to replace a 1.1 oz battery...

Apple shipped me a 79-pound iPhone repair kit to fix a 1.1-ounce battery - The Verge

06-06-2022, 10:14 AM   #8
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You can always get repair parts for your camera - just buy another one (some hard-to-find legacy cameras excluded).
06-06-2022, 11:03 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bob 256 Quote
You can always get repair parts for your camera - just buy another one (some hard-to-find legacy cameras excluded).
Haha


These half-baked legislations are all very well in theory, but as soon as they become impractical there are wider implications … a total lack of Pentax cameras for example?
06-06-2022, 11:24 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Have you seen Apple's home repair kit? It weighs 79 lbs and comes in two large cases...to replace a 1.1 oz battery...

Apple shipped me a 79-pound iPhone repair kit to fix a 1.1-ounce battery - The Verge
If soldered in memory serves, it can fix more than a battery, and folks that want to buy their own tools to do so, can. Remember, fixing a phone is something anyone can be trained to do in under two days, or so I've heard. What's more complex, a phone or a camera?
06-06-2022, 11:39 AM - 1 Like   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by kypfer Quote
Haha

These half-baked legislations are all very well in theory, but as soon as they become impractical there are wider implications … a total lack of Pentax cameras for example?
Manufacturers brought this on by their own policies.


Staying on-topic, I'll use a repeating example with Ricoh. They only have one authorized repair center in USA and do not make parts available to consumers. So, when someone breaks a removable lens foot and needs a simple replacement part, the customer is forced to ship their entire lens and pay for a "lens repair".

Ricoh's policies are hostile to consumers. 70-200 "lens repair" costs $478; that's insane for a lens foot. Shipping the lens when it doesn't really need to be shipped needlessly risks damage to the lens. Customers can't use the lens for several weeks while it's in transit and sitting at the repair center.
06-06-2022, 11:39 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Ricoh/Pentax would have to make parts available to repair shops and consumers.
There is nothing in that legislation mentions having to supply parts, only information.

"This bill requires original equipment manufacturers (OEM) to make diag-
nostic and repair
information for digital electronic parts and equipment
available to independent repair providers and consumers if such parts
and repair information are also available to OEM authorized repair
providers."
06-06-2022, 11:57 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
There is nothing in that legislation mentions having to supply parts, only information.

"This bill requires original equipment manufacturers (OEM) to make diag-
nostic and repair
information for digital electronic parts and equipment
available to independent repair providers and consumers if such parts
and repair information are also available to OEM authorized repair
providers."
Read the full text:

"Requires OEMs to make available, for purposes of diagnosis, mainte-nance, or repair, to any independent repair provider, or to the owner ofdigital electronic equipment manufactured by or on behalf of, or soldby, the OEM, on fair and reasonable terms, documentation, parts, andtools, inclusive of any updates to information."
06-06-2022, 11:59 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oldbayrunner Quote
There is nothing in that legislation mentions having to supply parts, only information.

"This bill requires original equipment manufacturers (OEM) to make diag-
nostic and repair
information for digital electronic parts and equipment
available to independent repair providers and consumers if such parts
and repair information are also available to OEM authorized repair
providers."
It does say "documentation, parts and tools" elsewhere.

Edit: you beat me to it
06-06-2022, 12:11 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by DeadJohn Quote
Read the full text:

"Requires OEMs to make available, for purposes of diagnosis, mainte-nance, or repair, to any independent repair provider, or to the owner ofdigital electronic equipment manufactured by or on behalf of, or soldby, the OEM, on fair and reasonable terms, documentation, parts, andtools, inclusive of any updates to information."
Gotcha....Thx missed that part
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