[Wheatfield]

Yes, the market is smaller, nobody said otherwise. What should be do about it, do nothing? Should we give up, stop release ILC cameras and give the whole camera market to smartphones?

That is the direction the market is taking. First, cell phones came after the point and shoot and took that market, then they went after bridge cameras and killed them as well.
Then they went after entry level kits and torpedoed that market segment.

The definition of a depressed market is when it shrinks over a period of time. The camera market has been contracting for a decade. The reality is that it's a depressed market. The reality is nothing is going to change that and it is only going to get worse.
The better cell phone photography gets, the more erosion there will be in the camera market.
The more mature the camera market gets, the fewer new sales there will be.
As we see more worldwide inflation, the less people will have to spend on luxury goods, which is what cameras are.

It's a trifecta of doom for the camera world.

[Kphoto63]

Yes, note the contradiction. This press release maintained production, sales and support of DSLRs continue, but did not make the same assurance about development, which was the subject of the Nikkei report.

The K-3 III's rival the D500 has effectively been discontinued and looks like current owners will not get a successor. The new Z mount lenses will not work on it, all F mount owners have taken a hit in resale value because for all intents and purposes, that mount's been orphaned by the company.

There is still stock (including third party lenses) in warehouses and a big secondhand market, but the corporation has lost faith and interest in it, it's not a platform for years to come.

Watch Canon continue to make the same plays, they've been discontinuing EF lenses progressively over the last couple of years.

I am pretty sure they are not taking that big of a hit. If you have used the platform for many years you have gotten good value for your money. If you switch to MILC Z Mount you can still use all of your F Mount glass with the FtZ adapter. I have NEVER bought a camera as an investment and worried about retail value to resell it. I buy a camera to use until it fails or until I need a different tool for a different job.

[Wheatfield]

I am pretty sure they are not taking that big of a hit. If you have used the platform for many years you have gotten good value for your money. If you switch to MILC Z Mount you can still use all of your F Mount glass with the FtZ adapter. I have NEVER bought a camera as an investment and worried about retail value to resell it. I buy a camera to use until it fails or until I need a different tool for a different job.

These adapters will only work until the company decides they shouldn't work. If new lens sales tank because the use base is adapting old lenses to new bodies, new bodies will stop working with old lenses.
Nikon did it when they changes to auto indexing. If you wanted to use an old lens you were out of luck unless you bought a high end body. They will do have to do something to force new lens sales.
Canon will do the same if RF lenses don't sell in sufficient numbers.

[reh321]

As we see more worldwide inflation, the less people will have to spend on luxury goods, which is what cameras are.

I won’t argue world economics with you.
What I know is that I have had more discretionary income as I have aged.
{My pay - and my wife's pay - increased faster than inflation did}

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Last edited by reh321; 07-19-2022 at 11:59 AM.

[biz-engineer]

It's a trifecta of doom for the camera world.

Do you mean that Pentax might not be able to continue? Was it an indirect message from @Clackers? (basically, "the market is in bad shape... you see what I mean...")

[Rondec]

Yes, the market is smaller, nobody said otherwise. What should be do about it, do nothing? Should we give up, stop release ILC cameras and give the whole camera market to smartphones?

---------- Post added 19-07-22 at 16:40 ----------


Well, if everyone would use products until EOL, the world could well turn into a abysmal global economic crisis that would plunge everyone in the dark without food for years. The whole world economy nowadays is based on consuming buying things they don't really need.

I think the whole point is that when the market is declining, you have to be targeted with the models you make available. Pentax has been doing that for a while, but Nikon still has a lot of different levels of models available -- most of them skewing more expensive. It may be that they need to cut back their number of cameras in the line up to make things work from an imaging standpoint.

[reh321]

These adapters will only work until the company decides they shouldn't work. If new lens sales tank because the use base is adapting old lenses to new bodies, new bodies will stop working with old lenses.
Nikon did it when they changes to auto indexing. If you wanted to use an old lens you were out of luck unless you bought a high end body. They will do have to do something to force new lens sales.
Canon will do the same if RF lenses don't sell in sufficient numbers.

The only Nikon lenses I know of that will not function normally using the “FTZ” adapter are those which depend on the camera body motor to provide motion for focusing; Nikon was very proud of the “FTZ” adapter when I saw their traveling ‘dog and pony’ show at our local camera store. Canon never used the screw drive, and I never liked it; all Canon EF lenses are like Pentax’s KAF4 lenses. Yes, they could disable them, but we have no reason to expect that. Pentax could also disable non-KAF4 lenses on DSLR bodies, but we have no reason to expect that. There is not a conspiracy under every bed - we have enough of that kind of talk in politics.

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Last edited by reh321; 07-19-2022 at 01:54 PM.

[Wheatfield]

Do you mean that Pentax might not be able to continue? Was it an indirect message from @Clackers? (basically, "the market is in bad shape... you see what I mean...")

I think Pentax has the best chance of survival. There are advantages to being small.

[luftfluss]

Nikon's recent release of its second iteration of the FTZ adapter - cleverly named FTZ II - is evidence that Nikon is committed to providing continued legacy support for AF-S lenses. Folks claiming otherwise are simply interested in spreading FUD.

[clackers]

I have NEVER bought a camera as an investment and worried about retail value to resell it.

I don't either, but plenty of less brand loyal photographers do. They followed the Youtubers, flipping brands to get the latest and greatest, and resales fund their next swap.

Ultimately, as Nikon have discovered, there are less of these (and all other kinds of photographers) around.

Nikon marketshare IIRC has halved since going mirrorless Z platform. Canon and Sony have eaten their lunch, while as you say, there will be plenty of Nikonians sticking to their DSLRs and simply not 'upgrading', even if the company needs them to!

AFAIK, Nikon's losses dwarf Olympus', which were eye watering in themselves before Olympus pulled the plug on their camera business.

[clackers]

Do you mean that Pentax might not be able to continue? Was it an indirect message from @Clackers? (basically, "the market is in bad shape... you see what I mean...")

No point denying the industry's in a crisis, BE.

And that Ricoh has in its own way handled it better than just about anyone else. But all these companies even after restructuring along Pentax's method's - sacking employees, terminating product lines, closing plants, moving manufacture overseas, withdrawing bribes to Youtubers, selling direct instead of through a retail network, etc - will struggle to get 8% returns annually, they're going to be continually faced by boards and shareholders that question each year - 'why are we still making cameras?'

Since the graphic below, the market has more than halved again AFAIK.

[clackers]

Nikon's recent release of its second iteration of the FTZ adapter - cleverly named FTZ II - is evidence that Nikon is committed to providing continued legacy support for AF-S lenses. Folks claiming otherwise are simply interested in spreading FUD.

Actually, that's not the issue.

The issue for most Nikonians in the world - who own F mount, not Z mount - is that new Nikon lenses won't work on their camera, there is no adapter for that.

Kphoto63 and I are like many of those Nikon owners - we don't buy another camera for the sake of it, we get as much use as we can out of the ones we bought.

For all the dollars spent on publicity, Nikon's failed to sell mirrorless even to Nikonians, let alone the owners of other brands.

Again, I think this is tragic, because they were the Number 2 company, now Number 3, and failure of a market leader reflects on the industry as a whole.

I want all the camera companies (and I shoot several brands, my first camera was my dad's Olympus film body) in this great hobby of ours to succeed. But I know that's not possible.

[Not a Number]

Here's one take on the situation:
Why Nikon and Canon have given up on DSLRs | Engadget

[leehopkins]

and the K-3iii demonstrates that Pentax will compete as well as they can within the DSLR “framework”.

I have the original K-3, it is my 'beloved' (see this thread about the use of this term) and wouldn't dream of moving away from it except to pick up a K-3iii, wherein I will send my old K-3 off to have an IR filter installed. The K-3iii is on my bucket list and, continued work still coming in, will be bought before Christmas.

[bogwalker]

I don't either, but plenty of less brand loyal photographers do. They followed the Youtubers, flipping brands to get the latest and greatest, and resales fund their next swap.

Ultimately, as Nikon have discovered, there are less of these (and all other kinds of photographers) around.

Youtubers who spent real money on cameras were a drop in the bucket. My son did quite a bit on youtube. He spent maybe $250 on a camera & lens. A bit for 3rd party extras (mike, tripod). That was all he ever spent, and his story is probably pretty typical. He more than made his money back on ad revenue, that may not be typical. Now he's on Tik-tok using video he takes with his iPhone. (His real job is in software).