[AggieDad]

The real question is, “Can you, in good conscious, recommend Pentax to a new (entry level) buyer?”

Since in most cases the first SLR (or changeable lens) camera pretty much determines the kit a person will stay with throughout most of their time in the hobby, I just would not feel comfortable recommending Pentax at this time. Perhaps if they demonstrate some marketing effort, grow their share, and regain a semblance of a market presence, I would do so. But at this time I think I would be leading someone down the garden path.

[luftfluss]

Since in most cases the first SLR (or changeable lens) camera pretty much determines the kit a person will stay with throughout most of their time in the hobby

Does this apply anymore, though? With auction sites and camera stores eager to buy used gear, it is not so hard or expensive to change systems as it once was.

That said, the last time I recommended a system to someone, I listened carefully to what he envisioned accomplishing and recommended... Panasonic.

[Rondec]

The real question is, “Can you, in good conscious, recommend Pentax to a new (entry level) buyer?”

Since in most cases the first SLR (or changeable lens) camera pretty much determines the kit a person will stay with throughout most of their time in the hobby, I just would not feel comfortable recommending Pentax at this time. Perhaps if they demonstrate some marketing effort, grow their share, and regain a semblance of a market presence, I would do so. But at this time I think I would be leading someone down the garden path.

Sure. Why not?

People focus way too much on gear and not enough on skill. A beginner photographer would be fine to start with a K-5 and DA 18-135 or a K-3 or even a K-70. If you can't produce high quality images with that sort of camera, why would you expect that an MILC with a silent kit lens is going to fix your issues?

[luftfluss]

To be exact, not playing is a loss avoidance decision. I've never seen anyone winning anything by not playing, valid in many areas of life. Like you can't get a job if you don't apply or don't show up or be invisible. You can't become president if you are not candidate to presidency, etc etc.. it's just the way it is, if you do nothing you don't risk losing anything but you also cut all your chances to win anything. Usually, the right strategy is a strategy that offers a likelihood of winning clearly higher than risks of losing, and for that it is necessary to play. Typically, a possible winning strategy for Pentax would be to roll out a series of new Pentax DSLR with lots of advertising at the time Canon/Nikon withdraw from the DSLR market segment.

My comment was actually based on a famous quote from the 1983 USA film WarGames, where an AI-equipped supercomputer learned that only by not engaging in a game of Global Thermonuclear War could it "win", i.e. survive.

[clickclick]

I look at where Pentax is somewhat like where Leica is. It's not about volume. It's about doing what you do, because you're the one that does it unlike any other. Pentax really brought the SLR into the world and made it the standard. We forget there was a day when it seemed like everyone knew about and wanted a Pentax. The Spotmatic was something I coveted as I started to get into photography, and as I talked with other people into photography, it (or other Pentax models) seemed to be everywhere. So, I optimistically hope Pentax will continue to be Pentax, and there will be those who seek it out, because its unlike any other, and they continue to do what they do.

[reh321]

The real question is, “Can you, in good conscious, recommend Pentax to a new (entry level) buyer?”

Since in most cases the first SLR (or changeable lens) camera pretty much determines the kit a person will stay with throughout most of their time in the hobby, I just would not feel comfortable recommending Pentax at this time. Perhaps if they demonstrate some marketing effort, grow their share, and regain a semblance of a market presence, I would do so. But at this time I think I would be leading someone down the garden path.

Sure. Why not?

People focus way too much on gear and not enough on skill. A beginner photographer would be fine to start with a K-5 and DA 18-135 or a K-3 or even a K-70. If you can't produce high quality images with that sort of camera, why would you expect that an MILC with a silent kit lens is going to fix your issues?

In 2018, I was arguing against the K-70, and I got a KP myself, because I had seen too many users {including myself} bit by the "Dark Image Syndrome".
Pentax - to their credit - has worked on the problem, so now I can recommend the K-70
This was not focusing on the gear; it was focusing on avoiding a problem that has bit entirely too many unsuspecting people.

[Digitalis]

Does this apply anymore, though? With auction sites and camera stores eager to buy used gear, it is not so hard or expensive to change systems as it once was.

I agree, there are more options for newcomers and the experienced alike, however it is easy to end up with more than what one needs which in a number of ways can be creatively inhibiting. Technology offers many wonderful tools but just to get started users need to familiarize themselves with the basics and have that knowledge at a solid level to build upon.

I have seen plenty of poorly executed HDR images where students have relied upon the camera or a piece of exotic software to work with their technical errors, these people wonder why I go through the effort of exposing manually and blending my HDR images by hand* when a camera or piece of software can do it automatically: the simple answer is precision and control.


Pentax KP- Sigma 8-16mm f/4.5-5.6 @ 8mm ISO 100 f/11 - hand blended HDR. Tonal range represented here is well over 20 stops.



* I also work with Wacom Cintiq touch/pen displays which make image editing fast, intuitive, and rather enjoyable.

---

Last edited by Digitalis; 07-21-2022 at 08:12 PM.

[carlb]

The real question is, “Can you, in good conscious, recommend Pentax to a new (entry level) buyer?”

Since in most cases the first SLR (or changeable lens) camera pretty much determines the kit a person will stay with throughout most of their time in the hobby, I just would not feel comfortable recommending Pentax at this time. Perhaps if they demonstrate some marketing effort, grow their share, and regain a semblance of a market presence, I would do so. But at this time I think I would be leading someone down the garden path.

Why not?

[luftfluss]

Why not?

It's hard to recommend Pentax to someone who has expressed an interest in wildlife photography, for instance. Or video. Or wants to be able to walk into a store and buy or just handle the gear.

And here in the USA, someone who wants service and support.

Personally, when I recommend gear to a photography neophyte - and I don't do so very often - I am very conservative, because I don't feel it is responsible on my part to encourage that person to take on the risks or compromises that I did.

[MarkJerling]

The real question is, “Can you, in good conscious, recommend Pentax to a new (entry level) buyer?”

Absolutely! Good value, lots and lots of options for cheap secondhand glass. Really the exact same reasons as 20 or 30 years ago.
Oh, and "being a bit different", which has never hurt in my view.

[AggieDad]

Why can't I, with a full kit of Pentax gear, recommend Pentax to a new photographer? Because I can't feel that confident that Pentax will be offering much in 5 years if they are, indeed, still in business. I think a person staring out should start out with equipment from a dynamic company that is sure to be around in the future.

[simon_199]

The real question is, “Can you, in good conscious, recommend Pentax to a new (entry level) buyer?”

I tried once on a forum, reply by other members was that "it is crazy to recommend a reflex (let alone Pentax) in 2022"
...and as good as a K70 can be, they are not dead wrong. It's quite difficult for me to come up with a description of the typical (new) Pentax customer in the years to come.

An absolute beginner ?
- It's unlikely they would prefer OVF for any reason. Most likely no preference at all. So this driver is gone.
- They'll want mirrorless just because is the newer tech, and all players but one have discontinued DSLR. In this regard, the move out by Canon and Nikon is even worse for Pentax. It seals the perceived fate of DSLR as a "thing of the past" for the casual user.
- It's likely they'll buy used, so maybe an old dslr, but they'll look at the sheer amount of gear available and buy Canon Nikon even if for some reason they want DSLR.

This won't change unless Pentax offers something very compelling in terms of value for money to undercut the competition. At the level of the whole package (lenses + body). Is this even possible ?

More advanced users targeting high end bodies might be in the market but users are not born advanced. They likely come from other systems and must have a motivation to switch...

[MarkJerling]

Why can't I, with a full kit of Pentax gear, recommend Pentax to a new photographer? Because I can't feel that confident that Pentax will be offering much in 5 years if they are, indeed, still in business. I think a person staring out should start out with equipment from a dynamic company that is sure to be around in the future.

Can we really confidently state that any camera manufacturer is going to be around in 5 years time? Canon? Nikon? I'd like to think they will be but who knows.
Chances are, they'll exist, but will they still be selling consumer cameras? Who knows.

I have a greater confidence that Pentax will be around than some of the other "big" players.

[MarkJerling]

An absolute beginner ?
- It's unlikely they would prefer OVF for any reason. Most likely no preference at all. So this driver is gone.
- They'll want mirrorless just because is the newer tech, and all players but one have discontinued DSLR. In this regard, the move out by Canon and Nikon is even worse for Pentax. It seals the perceived fate of DSLR as a "thing of the past" for the casual user.
- It's likely they'll buy used, so maybe an old dslr, but they'll look at the sheer amount of gear available and buy Canon Nikon even if for some reason they want DSLR.

I'd like to respectfully disagree.

Every student photographer and design student I've interacted with over the last several years have purchased, as their first camera, a film camera. And, more often than not, that film camera was a secondhand K1000, and all that without any urging on my part. A mirrorless camera can be a good choice for someone's first digital camera, but for people who want to understand photography at the basic level, film is still the preferred learning medium and Pentax remains very popular.

[simon_199]

I'd like to respectfully disagree.

Every student photographer and design student I've interacted with over the last several years have purchased, as their first camera, a film camera. And, more often than not, that film camera was a secondhand K1000, and all that without any urging on my part. A mirrorless camera can be a good choice for someone's first digital camera, but for people who want to understand photography at the basic level, film is still the preferred learning medium and Pentax remains very popular.

I don't think our statements are necessarily contradictory. If there is a niche market of people starting from film cameras and maybe building a small collection of vintage Pentax glass, that crowd might be inclined to remain in Pentax as they transition to digital or at least use digital alongside film (and 99.9% of them, will do). That is a potential market that Pentax should invest in. But how significant is it ? Many people, even design students, start with digital, but how many is many ? Frankly I have no idea, one should have some reliable statistics, maybe Ricoh does. I like to think that they did their homework in terms of market research. And we must not forget that their reference market is Japan, and that the market landscape probably varies significantly by geographical area.