PetaPixel: Pentax May Have Lucked Out as Nikon and Canon Leave DSLRs Behind

**cdw2000** · 07-21-2022, 09:15 AM - **3 Likes**

Article link: Pentax May Have Lucked Out as Nikon and Canon Leave DSLRs Behind | PetaPixel

Last edited by cdw2000; 07-21-2022 at 09:22 AM.

**AgentL** · 07-21-2022, 09:24 AM - **4 Likes**

I read the article a few days ago. It's not a bad article, but it doesn't say all that much. My main takeaway is, it's time for Pentax to be aggressive in promoting the values they have laid out about SLR technology. The K3 III was a good entry. The K1 II is still an impressive camera, even though it is not actively marketed and isn't in enough stores. But now would be an excellent time for them to release a modern incarnation of their classic SLRs. I think that would really catch the attention of the pundits and capture a lot of the people who are not firmly buying in to mirrorless and EVFs.

simon_199 · 07-21-2022, 09:31 AM - **2 Likes**

Interesting article. I don't know if C/N move out of the DSLR marker will have any impact on the probability of success of Ricoh strategy (i.e. the probability that it stays in the market). The market for "entry level" interchangeable lenses cameras has almost disappeared, together with the associated type of customers. Those having a random d5300 with kit lens lying around will never go to the market, if ever, with unconditional love for the optical viewfinder so that they will consider buying Pentax because they want a DSLR. They absolutely do not care and will buy whatever has the best specs, or just use their phone. This, even in the event that Pentax decides to release a low-budget DSLR (like the good K70).
The only people with a strong enough opinion on viewfinders/philosophy/attention to the "experience" of shooting a camera are enthusiasts or professionals. In this group, Canon/Nikon DSLR users still have the very compelling option of a gradual transition to the new ML systems using adapters that work fairly well, to keep at least some of their lenses. The strength of this push is proportional to how much money they have invested in top quality glass. I am under the impression, from reading some general photography forums, that this possibility far outweighs the preference for optical viewfinders. Couple this with the fact that EVFs are catching up fast in quality and usability and I remain with the question: will there be enough customers motivated enough to switch brands to Pentax or new customers starting from scratch that are willing to buy into the Pentax system ? I have to assume that Ricoh has done their market research to answer this question...

One thing I would invest on is in developing the viewfinder eye-af technology they have started to implement with the K-3iii, maybe with a better implementation on a new K-1iii ? I don't know what the technical limits of such a solution are. But what if it can be developed to at least catch up with ML cameras of a few years ago ? (Already sufficient for most users, not everybody wants animal-eye AF at 50fps on 60MP sensors to use with 1200mm lenses from 1km away...). It's a technology that could sort of bridge the gap between the two worlds. The main selling point for MLs is that kind of AF performance, and what if Pentax DLSRs can get close ?

And video...naturally video. There is a growing market for hybrid shooters who want hybrid cameras. This is another market trend that, unfortunately, is not in favor of DSLR technology. (Personally, I don't care in the slightest and I would love a stills-only camera with no video switch

)

peptheyep · 07-21-2022, 09:32 AM

I really hope the company can keep up with the market, now that they shifted to a different business model. Having a strong line-up of DSLRs would be interesting, and the K3 III is a good starting point, but much more has to be done. The k-70 is still a good entry-mid level APSC camera (correct me if it still produced or not) and the K-1 II is too, but they need a step up for keeping up with the speed and the quality newer cameras deliver.

simon_199 · 07-21-2022, 09:41 AM - **3 Likes**

Originally posted by peptheyep

I really hope the company can keep up with the market, now that they shifted to a different business model. Having a strong line-up of DSLRs would be interesting, and the K3 III is a good starting point, but much more has to be done. The k-70 is still a good entry-mid level APSC camera (correct me if it still produced or not) and the K-1 II is too, but they need a step up for keeping up with the speed and the quality newer cameras deliver.

And better lenses in terms of speed and performance. Screwdrive AF has no place in 2022. It puts off a lot of people, it's almost ridiculed. The new 16-50 PLM and 11-18 DC are the way to go. Some great lenses like the 50-135 or the DA300 need a PLM/DC refresh.

**Rondec** · 07-21-2022, 10:15 AM

I guess the question is what does it mean if Nikon and Canon vacate the SLR market. Does it mean that Pentax eventually has 100 percent of the market, but that they are still only selling about 100,000 cameras world wide? Or, does it mean that they will actually grow the number of cameras they sell somewhat?

To me, a lot depends on when they bring out a K-1 III and K-70 sequel. If they bring them out with the right timing and market them well, they could increase the number of cameras sold.

This sort of situation is an opportunity, if they only have the energy and finances necessary to take advantage of it.

The Squirrel Mafia · 07-21-2022, 10:21 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by simon_199

And better lenses in terms of speed and performance. Screwdrive AF has no place in 2022. It puts off a lot of people, it's almost ridiculed. The new 16-50 PLM and 11-18 DC are the way to go. Some great lenses like the 50-135 or the DA300 need a PLM/DC refresh.

This times a million!

MrB1 · 07-21-2022, 10:49 AM - **3 Likes**

I would stay with Pentax simply for their build quality and image quality of the DA Limited lenses. They are named Limited but their screw drive is not a limitation.

Philip

peptheyep · 07-21-2022, 10:51 AM

Originally posted by simon_199

And better lenses in terms of speed and performance. Screwdrive AF has no place in 2022. It puts off a lot of people, it's almost ridiculed. The new 16-50 PLM and 11-18 DC are the way to go. Some great lenses like the 50-135 or the DA300 need a PLM/DC refresh.

I totally agree. I recently bought a DA 50mm 1.8 and the screwdrive AF with this lens mounted is the noisiest I can remember. It is not a pro lens by any means, but it still is very noisy. I hope they can work on the reliability of the newer AF systems, because I have heard too many complaints about them being faulty.

simon_199 · 07-21-2022, 10:58 AM

Originally posted by peptheyep

I totally agree. I recently bought a DA 50mm 1.8 and the screwdrive AF with this lens mounted is the noisiest I can remember. It is not a pro lens by any means, but it still is very noisy. I hope they can work on the reliability of the newer AF systems, because I have heard too many complaints about them being faulty.

Got that one too, very cheap on Amazon warehouse for 75€ it's a fun lens, but screwdrive AF is so ancient. Few weeks later I got the 55-300 PLM and that one is no pro lens as well, but does not feel like a relic from the past.

For people (like me) already invested in a Pentax system with a few lenses, accessories, it's easy to overlook. Like I absolutely love the DFA 100mm macro. It has beautiful rendering, every bit as good as any other 100mm macro if not better. But imagine a potential new buyer browsing the current Pentax lens catalogue and expecting modern AF motors....
If they have to grow market share by taking some hardcore DSLR fan from the canikon camp (do hardcore DSLR fans really exist ?) they really have to appeal to some new customer.

**luftfluss** · 07-21-2022, 11:00 AM - **5 Likes**

Not really luck, Pentax knew the only winning move is not to play.

**Rondec** · 07-21-2022, 12:26 PM - **5 Likes**

People talking about screw driven lenses, but there are a lot of lenses with fast silent auto focus.

DA 20-40, 18-135, 16-85, 55-300 PLM all should have DC or PLM motors and should be pretty zippy. The same with the DA *16-50 PLM. The DFA 15-30, 24-70, 70-200, and 150-450, along with the DFA *50 and 85 are quite speedy as well.

I believe the undercurrent here is not that Pentax doesn't have fast, silent auto focus lenses, but that they are often more expensive than the older screw drive lenses. But if Pentax does a new version of the DA *300 or 50-135, it is going to be quite a bit north of 1000 dollars. The same would be true if they relaunched the FA limiteds with in lens motors and an optical update to reduce fringing.

So the question is how much do Pentaxians value fast silent auto focus? Is it enough to drop 650 dollars on a 16-85 or 1300 dollars on the 16-50 PLM? My guess is that many would prefer to use older screw driven lenses and maybe complain along the way.

I own many of the lenses I mentioned and they are much better at focusing than older versions, but they aren't cheap either.

biz-engineer · 07-21-2022, 12:32 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by luftfluss

Not really luck, Pentax knew the only winning move is not to play.

To be exact, not playing is a loss avoidance decision. I've never seen anyone winning anything by not playing, valid in many areas of life. Like you can't get a job if you don't apply or don't show up or be invisible. You can't become president if you are not candidate to presidency, etc etc.. it's just the way it is, if you do nothing you don't risk losing anything but you also cut all your chances to win anything. Usually, the right strategy is a strategy that offers a likelihood of winning clearly higher than risks of losing, and for that it is necessary to play. Typically, a possible winning strategy for Pentax would be to roll out a series of new Pentax DSLR with lots of advertising at the time Canon/Nikon withdraw from the DSLR market segment.

**jersey** · 07-21-2022, 12:43 PM - **1 Like**

I doubt anyone will care about screwdriver (unless it is very noisy one), maybe action photographers that need fast focusing lenses. Screwdriver has it's pros, it is very, very, very reliable system. Mechanics always trump electric/electronic in terms of reliability. But all in all I agree that new lenses need to be IF. But then - they already are. When was last time Pentax released screwdriver lens? All more modern especially higher grade are SDM, DC or lately PLM driven.

OTOH you may also say that Pentax could release a K-1 Mk III with only KAF4 support, no screwdriver motor in body. Not gonna happen, at least not until all Limiteds are replaced but that is also possibility.

**iheiramo** · 07-21-2022, 01:48 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by peptheyep

I totally agree. I recently bought a DA 50mm 1.8 and the screwdrive AF with this lens mounted is the noisiest I can remember. It is not a pro lens by any means, but it still is very noisy. I hope they can work on the reliability of the newer AF systems, because I have heard too many complaints about them being faulty.

I've heard that DFA*50 is pretty fast and K3III has AF on par with competition. Solution is already in stores.

07-21-2022, 09:15 AM - 3 Likes	#1
cdw2000 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: New Hampshire Photos: Albums Posts: 244	PetaPixel: Pentax May Have Lucked Out as Nikon and Canon Leave DSLRs Behind Article link: Pentax May Have Lucked Out as Nikon and Canon Leave DSLRs Behind \| PetaPixel Last edited by cdw2000; 07-21-2022 at 09:22 AM.

07-21-2022, 09:31 AM - 2 Likes	#3
simon_199 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 613	Interesting article. I don't know if C/N move out of the DSLR marker will have any impact on the probability of success of Ricoh strategy (i.e. the probability that it stays in the market). The market for "entry level" interchangeable lenses cameras has almost disappeared, together with the associated type of customers. Those having a random d5300 with kit lens lying around will never go to the market, if ever, with unconditional love for the optical viewfinder so that they will consider buying Pentax because they want a DSLR. They absolutely do not care and will buy whatever has the best specs, or just use their phone. This, even in the event that Pentax decides to release a low-budget DSLR (like the good K70). The only people with a strong enough opinion on viewfinders/philosophy/attention to the "experience" of shooting a camera are enthusiasts or professionals. In this group, Canon/Nikon DSLR users still have the very compelling option of a gradual transition to the new ML systems using adapters that work fairly well, to keep at least some of their lenses. The strength of this push is proportional to how much money they have invested in top quality glass. I am under the impression, from reading some general photography forums, that this possibility far outweighs the preference for optical viewfinders. Couple this with the fact that EVFs are catching up fast in quality and usability and I remain with the question: will there be enough customers motivated enough to switch brands to Pentax or new customers starting from scratch that are willing to buy into the Pentax system ? I have to assume that Ricoh has done their market research to answer this question... One thing I would invest on is in developing the viewfinder eye-af technology they have started to implement with the K-3iii, maybe with a better implementation on a new K-1iii ? I don't know what the technical limits of such a solution are. But what if it can be developed to at least catch up with ML cameras of a few years ago ? (Already sufficient for most users, not everybody wants animal-eye AF at 50fps on 60MP sensors to use with 1200mm lenses from 1km away...). It's a technology that could sort of bridge the gap between the two worlds. The main selling point for MLs is that kind of AF performance, and what if Pentax DLSRs can get close ? And video...naturally video. There is a growing market for hybrid shooters who want hybrid cameras. This is another market trend that, unfortunately, is not in favor of DSLR technology. (Personally, I don't care in the slightest and I would love a stills-only camera with no video switch ) Last edited by simon_199; 07-21-2022 at 09:38 AM.

07-21-2022, 12:26 PM - 5 Likes	#12
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	People talking about screw driven lenses, but there are a lot of lenses with fast silent auto focus. DA 20-40, 18-135, 16-85, 55-300 PLM all should have DC or PLM motors and should be pretty zippy. The same with the DA 16-50 PLM. The DFA 15-30, 24-70, 70-200, and 150-450, along with the DFA 50 and 85 are quite speedy as well. I believe the undercurrent here is not that Pentax doesn't have fast, silent auto focus lenses, but that they are often more expensive than the older screw drive lenses. But if Pentax does a new version of the DA 300 or 50-135, it is going to be quite a bit north of 1000 dollars. The same would be true if they relaunched the FA limiteds with in lens motors and an optical update to reduce fringing. So the question is how much do Pentaxians value fast silent auto focus? Is it enough to drop 650 dollars on a 16-85 or 1300 dollars on the 16-50 PLM? My guess is that many would prefer to use older screw driven lenses and maybe complain along the way. I own many of the lenses I mentioned and they are much better at focusing than older versions, but they aren't cheap either. Last edited by Rondec; 07-22-2022 at 02:45 AM.*

07-21-2022, 12:32 PM - 1 Like	#13
biz-engineer Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2015 Photos: Gallery Posts: 12,232	Originally posted by luftfluss Not really luck, Pentax knew the only winning move is not to play. To be exact, not playing is a loss avoidance decision. I've never seen anyone winning anything by not playing, valid in many areas of life. Like you can't get a job if you don't apply or don't show up or be invisible. You can't become president if you are not candidate to presidency, etc etc.. it's just the way it is, if you do nothing you don't risk losing anything but you also cut all your chances to win anything. Usually, the right strategy is a strategy that offers a likelihood of winning clearly higher than risks of losing, and for that it is necessary to play. Typically, a possible winning strategy for Pentax would be to roll out a series of new Pentax DSLR with lots of advertising at the time Canon/Nikon withdraw from the DSLR market segment. Last edited by biz-engineer; 07-21-2022 at 12:38 PM.

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07-21-2022, 09:24 AM - 4 Likes	#2
AgentL Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Seattle Photos: Albums Posts: 1,756	I read the article a few days ago. It's not a bad article, but it doesn't say all that much. My main takeaway is, it's time for Pentax to be aggressive in promoting the values they have laid out about SLR technology. The K3 III was a good entry. The K1 II is still an impressive camera, even though it is not actively marketed and isn't in enough stores. But now would be an excellent time for them to release a modern incarnation of their classic SLRs. I think that would really catch the attention of the pundits and capture a lot of the people who are not firmly buying in to mirrorless and EVFs.

07-21-2022, 09:32 AM	#4
peptheyep Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Photos: Gallery Posts: 39	I really hope the company can keep up with the market, now that they shifted to a different business model. Having a strong line-up of DSLRs would be interesting, and the K3 III is a good starting point, but much more has to be done. The k-70 is still a good entry-mid level APSC camera (correct me if it still produced or not) and the K-1 II is too, but they need a step up for keeping up with the speed and the quality newer cameras deliver.

07-21-2022, 09:41 AM - 3 Likes	#5
simon_199 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 613	Originally posted by peptheyep I really hope the company can keep up with the market, now that they shifted to a different business model. Having a strong line-up of DSLRs would be interesting, and the K3 III is a good starting point, but much more has to be done. The k-70 is still a good entry-mid level APSC camera (correct me if it still produced or not) and the K-1 II is too, but they need a step up for keeping up with the speed and the quality newer cameras deliver. And better lenses in terms of speed and performance. Screwdrive AF has no place in 2022. It puts off a lot of people, it's almost ridiculed. The new 16-50 PLM and 11-18 DC are the way to go. Some great lenses like the 50-135 or the DA300 need a PLM/DC refresh.

07-21-2022, 10:15 AM	#6
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,653	I guess the question is what does it mean if Nikon and Canon vacate the SLR market. Does it mean that Pentax eventually has 100 percent of the market, but that they are still only selling about 100,000 cameras world wide? Or, does it mean that they will actually grow the number of cameras they sell somewhat? To me, a lot depends on when they bring out a K-1 III and K-70 sequel. If they bring them out with the right timing and market them well, they could increase the number of cameras sold. This sort of situation is an opportunity, if they only have the energy and finances necessary to take advantage of it.

07-21-2022, 10:21 AM - 1 Like	#7
The Squirrel Mafia Pentaxian Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 3,054	Originally posted by simon_199 And better lenses in terms of speed and performance. Screwdrive AF has no place in 2022. It puts off a lot of people, it's almost ridiculed. The new 16-50 PLM and 11-18 DC are the way to go. Some great lenses like the 50-135 or the DA300 need a PLM/DC refresh. This times a million!

07-21-2022, 10:49 AM - 3 Likes	#8
MrB1 Pentaxian Join Date: May 2013 Location: Hertfordshire, England Posts: 845	I would stay with Pentax simply for their build quality and image quality of the DA Limited lenses. They are named Limited but their screw drive is not a limitation. Philip

07-21-2022, 10:51 AM	#9
peptheyep Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Photos: Gallery Posts: 39	Originally posted by simon_199 And better lenses in terms of speed and performance. Screwdrive AF has no place in 2022. It puts off a lot of people, it's almost ridiculed. The new 16-50 PLM and 11-18 DC are the way to go. Some great lenses like the 50-135 or the DA300 need a PLM/DC refresh. I totally agree. I recently bought a DA 50mm 1.8 and the screwdrive AF with this lens mounted is the noisiest I can remember. It is not a pro lens by any means, but it still is very noisy. I hope they can work on the reliability of the newer AF systems, because I have heard too many complaints about them being faulty.

07-21-2022, 10:58 AM	#10
simon_199 Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2014 Posts: 613	Originally posted by peptheyep I totally agree. I recently bought a DA 50mm 1.8 and the screwdrive AF with this lens mounted is the noisiest I can remember. It is not a pro lens by any means, but it still is very noisy. I hope they can work on the reliability of the newer AF systems, because I have heard too many complaints about them being faulty. Got that one too, very cheap on Amazon warehouse for 75€ it's a fun lens, but screwdrive AF is so ancient. Few weeks later I got the 55-300 PLM and that one is no pro lens as well, but does not feel like a relic from the past. For people (like me) already invested in a Pentax system with a few lenses, accessories, it's easy to overlook. Like I absolutely love the DFA 100mm macro. It has beautiful rendering, every bit as good as any other 100mm macro if not better. But imagine a potential new buyer browsing the current Pentax lens catalogue and expecting modern AF motors.... If they have to grow market share by taking some hardcore DSLR fan from the canikon camp (do hardcore DSLR fans really exist ?) they really have to appeal to some new customer.

07-21-2022, 11:00 AM - 5 Likes	#11
luftfluss Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,619	Not really luck, Pentax knew the only winning move is not to play.

07-21-2022, 12:43 PM - 1 Like	#14
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,056	I doubt anyone will care about screwdriver (unless it is very noisy one), maybe action photographers that need fast focusing lenses. Screwdriver has it's pros, it is very, very, very reliable system. Mechanics always trump electric/electronic in terms of reliability. But all in all I agree that new lenses need to be IF. But then - they already are. When was last time Pentax released screwdriver lens? All more modern especially higher grade are SDM, DC or lately PLM driven. OTOH you may also say that Pentax could release a K-1 Mk III with only KAF4 support, no screwdriver motor in body. Not gonna happen, at least not until all Limiteds are replaced but that is also possibility.

07-21-2022, 01:48 PM - 2 Likes	#15
iheiramo Unoriginal Poster Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Espoo Photos: Albums Posts: 3,182	Originally posted by peptheyep I totally agree. I recently bought a DA 50mm 1.8 and the screwdrive AF with this lens mounted is the noisiest I can remember. It is not a pro lens by any means, but it still is very noisy. I hope they can work on the reliability of the newer AF systems, because I have heard too many complaints about them being faulty. I've heard that DFA*50 is pretty fast and K3III has AF on par with competition. Solution is already in stores.