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07-29-2022, 07:19 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by biz-engineer Quote
Pentax will not be able to follow suit because the market is shrinking and as @ clackers explained, the marketing isn't big enough for third parties to make money with K mount lenses, Pentax won't be able to make money with k mount lenses either.
There is a big difference between “make money” and “make enough money”.

07-29-2022, 09:14 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I suspect that we will find that a lot of the third party glass for mirrorless is going to be little more than SLR lenses with a built in extension tube to let them work on the short registration mounts.
Even if this isn't the case, it's not like as if Pentax is incapable of designing lenses. My experience is they are pretty good at it.
They've used Tamron in the past because it was easier than designing their own not because they can't do it.
It used to be the case, but for Tamron, Samyang and Sigma it has been MILC-only designs for the last three or so years. Tamron in particular is IMO a better option than Sony for an e-mount camera, these days

Irix and Venus do make SLR lenses, but that's kind of it.
07-29-2022, 09:28 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by weverka Quote
I am interested in your lens design work. Modern glass catalogs lend themselves to different solutions than we had before, but it is expensive to add the low dispersion elements and sometimes more than the aspheres.

My last lens optimization put optical power near the sensor, which was particularly beneficial for a tight vignetting spec. That inspired this topic, since the mirrorless has a shorter distance to the sensor. However I had a look at mount to sensor distance in the mirrorless cameras and found it is not nearly as small as some of my designs. Is this due to fear of something hitting the sensor if it is too close to the front?

---------- Post added 07-29-22 at 08:19 AM ----------



Interesting. I suppose a lot of customers see the zoom as a good substitute for buying an array of primes.
I sold my 24-70mm when I realized most of my shots with it were at the extremes of the focal lengths. I have primes that serve me better.
I was chained to a 50mm prime at one time.

Now I choose my perspective, then my framing.
I have used wide aperture values only as a cost of using slow film under dim circumstances.
07-29-2022, 11:48 AM - 3 Likes   #79
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It could be worse. Some business genius could invent a "subscription model" for the camera industry, like what is creeping into the car industry. For only $12.99 a month, they'll turn on another 10 megapixels.


Last edited by Just1MoreDave; 07-29-2022 at 12:12 PM.
07-29-2022, 12:35 PM - 1 Like   #80
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
It could be worse. Some business genius could invent a "subscription model" for the camera industry, like what is creeping into the car industry. For only $12.99 a month, they'll turn on another 10 megapixels.
ISO over 6400 is another subscription.
You also get only the first 6 fps free with the Ka-ching3iii. Shooting at 9 fps costs you $0.01 per frame, shooting at 12 fps is a $0.03 cost per frame.
07-29-2022, 01:17 PM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
It could be worse. Some business genius could invent a "subscription model" for the camera industry, like what is creeping into the car industry. For only $12.99 a month, they'll turn on another 10 megapixels.
That issue is actually a bit more serious than just "turn on another 10 megapixels" if we can predict anything based on the long-term plans for the car industry. Apparently, the people behind this idea do intend to expand it into other areas of our lives. Whether it actually works is another thing, but they sure as hell intend to try.
07-29-2022, 02:01 PM - 1 Like   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by C_Jones Quote
I have all Pentax lenses, except for my Sigma 150-500 for Pentax that is no longer made. If Pentax would have had the 150-450 lens available when I purchased the 150-500, I probably would have purchased it instead of the 150-500, but the 150-450 had not been manufactured yet. Pentax has a nice choice of lenses, including wide and telephoto.
Exactly. My only non Pentax lens, is also my Sigma 150-500, and I bought that, for the same reason you bought your Sigma 150-500. I have seen no reason to buy Non Pentax lenses...for my Pentax bodies . I get and have quite a few Pentax lenses.

07-29-2022, 02:06 PM - 1 Like   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by lesmore49 Quote
Exactly. My only non Pentax lens, is also my Sigma 150-500, and I bought that, for the same reason you bought your Sigma 150-500. I have seen no reason to buy Non Pentax lenses...for my Pentax bodies . I get and have quite a few Pentax lenses.
I agree.
07-29-2022, 03:23 PM   #84
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
It could be worse. Some business genius could invent a "subscription model" for the camera industry, like what is creeping into the car industry. For only $12.99 a month, they'll turn on another 10 megapixels.
In the car industry the idea is to streamline production to one or very few hardware variants. Like: it is cheaper to produce all car seats with el, heating, the choice to have heated seats in your car becomes a paid option and an activation , but not a hw variant. With the added advantage you can buy/activate it later or get it for a monthly subscription fee...(which is choice capex-opex for buyer, and a way for producer create a recurring revenue - in current context of shortages in supply chain: there would be revenues without even building new cars during stalled production due to shortages or pandemics....

In electronics, IT, telecoms there is a shift in value chain to software (with updates, new features) away from hardware (generic, cheaper and powerfull enough). Software becomes Subscriptions. Think like Microsoft Office or some postprocessing photo software....
...

So we could imaging having one camera body being sold as fullframe K1markIII, or in cropped mode K3markIV or K70markII, features like HDR or pixelshift by option payment, or get the sw AND upgrades covered by monthly fees (like new added KATEN image profile...?)....
Looks like for the camera it's feasible soon: cropped mode exists, adding features too, they just need to create a subscription model...
Only lenses will stay hardware... I mean you can program an ultra zoom ( like 17-300mm) to behave like a prime or a standard 17-50mmm but the image quality won’t be a prime experience , nor a 17-50 f2.8 fixed caperture low light lens...
Maybe lenses need more time to evolve into Trilobite-Inspired Camera Boasts Huge Depth of Field | News | Communications of the ACM or into this 'Lensless' imaging through advanced machine learning for next generation image sensing solutions .... before it becomes sw features...

The future is bright software subscription and option packs...
07-29-2022, 05:54 PM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by mlag Quote
In the car industry the idea is to streamline production to one or very few hardware variants. Like: it is cheaper to produce all car seats with el, heating, the choice to have heated seats in your car becomes a paid option and an activation , but not a hw variant. With the added advantage you can buy/activate it later or get it for a monthly subscription fee...(which is choice capex-opex for buyer, and a way for producer create a recurring revenue - in current context of shortages in supply chain: there would be revenues without even building new cars during stalled production due to shortages or pandemics....

In electronics, IT, telecoms there is a shift in value chain to software (with updates, new features) away from hardware (generic, cheaper and powerfull enough). Software becomes Subscriptions. Think like Microsoft Office or some postprocessing photo software....
...

So we could imaging having one camera body being sold as fullframe K1markIII, or in cropped mode K3markIV or K70markII, features like HDR or pixelshift by option payment, or get the sw AND upgrades covered by monthly fees (like new added KATEN image profile...?)....
Looks like for the camera it's feasible soon: cropped mode exists, adding features too, they just need to create a subscription model...
Only lenses will stay hardware... I mean you can program an ultra zoom ( like 17-300mm) to behave like a prime or a standard 17-50mmm but the image quality won’t be a prime experience , nor a 17-50 f2.8 fixed caperture low light lens...
Maybe lenses need more time to evolve into Trilobite-Inspired Camera Boasts Huge Depth of Field | News | Communications of the ACM or into this 'Lensless' imaging through advanced machine learning for next generation image sensing solutions .... before it becomes sw features...

The future is bright software subscription and option packs...
This might be popular amongst users.
How many times have we heard “why don’t they exclude X ……… I never use X”.
07-30-2022, 02:27 AM - 1 Like   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Just1MoreDave Quote
Some business genius could invent a "subscription model" for the camera industry, like what is creeping into the car industry. For only $12.99 a month, they'll turn on another 10 megapixels.
The wet dream of company accountants is rental, because it gives a steady and predictable income. Microsoft for example want you to rent software because the boom-and-slack years of the 1990s were a nightmare for them - remember the people (not me) queuing overnight to buy Win 95, 98, ME etc on their release days, but then buying nothing more for years between? With cameras (and phones), you will pay 25 pence per shot and it will go straight to the cloud where your bill is calculated and, as a bonus, the marketing people can analyse your lifestyle. No local storage, few people will still have PCs anyway, or any storage medium beyond a buffer.

This is one of the reasons I don't want a phone in my camera, as some PF commenters have advocated. It would be the thin end of that wedge. I hope I am wrong in the above scenario anyway.
07-30-2022, 03:00 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
The wet dream of company accountants is rental, because it gives a steady and predictable income...
Whatever the accountants’ fantasy, there is an overriding factor: will we, the public buy it? Any spreadsheet wielder thinks he’s gonna charge me to use what I already own, or level a fee for the 200 shots discarded because the bird wouldn’t sit there half a second can just dream on.

My, this thread has drifted.
07-30-2022, 03:43 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Whatever the accountants’ fantasy, there is an overriding factor: will we, the public buy it? Any spreadsheet wielder thinks he’s gonna charge me to use what I already own, or level a fee for the 200 shots discarded because the bird wouldn’t sit there half a second can just dream on.

My, this thread has drifted.
Yes, we will. Not you, or I. But if most industries are anything to go by...
07-30-2022, 04:51 AM - 1 Like   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by StiffLegged Quote
Whatever the accountants’ fantasy, there is an overriding factor: will we, the public buy it?
We said the same about Adobe software back in the day...
07-30-2022, 05:26 AM   #90
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QuoteOriginally posted by hayavuk Quote
We said the same about Adobe software back in the day...
and Adobe still has not received any money from me - I use “gimp” these days.
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