Interesting story from the Asia Times

**subsea** · 03-03-2023, 07:50 AM - **2 Likes**

https://asiatimes.com/2023/03/digital-camera-sales-clicking-back-to-life/

I wonder how true it actually is….

(Moderators feel free to move this if you wish or delete it if it’s covered somewhere else.)

**jersey** · 03-03-2023, 08:10 AM

Well, looks like camera sales stabilized, more or less, and companies start to increase revenue by raising prices and selling more "top of the line" rather then consumer grade. Nothing surprising I would say. I wonder what price tags will be on new Pentax bodies and lenses.

**yucatanPentax** · 03-03-2023, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by jersey

Well, looks like camera sales stabilized, more or less, and companies start to increase revenue by raising prices and selling more "top of the line" rather then consumer grade. Nothing surprising I would say. I wonder what price tags will be on new Pentax bodies and lenses.

Has Pentax already done that with their latest lenses and the K-3iii ? Seems like it!

Mistral75 · 03-03-2023, 11:21 AM - **1 Like**

2022 was a year of stabilisation in units (-4%) and recovery in value (+39%). 2023 begins poorly.

**ehrwien** · 03-03-2023, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

2023 begins poorly.

I predict it will continue poorly. Inflation doesn't leave people with much money to spend on non-essentials.

**RGlasel** · 03-03-2023, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by Mistral75

2023 begins poorly.

That's a bit of an understatement. Not only is January 2023 down 35.4% from January 2022, but this decrease is even worse than the January 2021 to January 2020 comparison (-20.9%). January 2023 shipments are 46.6% of January 2020 shipments (and January 2020 was down 19.6% from January 2019. The biggest drop is with fixed lens cameras, 112,539 units in 1/23 compared to 358,316 in 1/20, but DSLRs aren't far behind, 56,298 units in 1/23 compared to 227,486 in 1/20. Even mirrorless is down over the same period, 205,930 units vs 218,544 in 1/20. Mirrorless shipments in January 2022 were 224,698 units, so after the mirrorless market flucuating by less than 3% from year to year from 2019 to 2022, January 2023 is down 8.4%.

If a graph of January shipments from 2020 to 2023 was a ski hill, it would be a double black diamond run. For non-skiers, digital camera sales overall have fallen off a cliff after sliding down a steep slope from 2013 to 2019. One month does not an unstoppable trend make, but don't expect manufacturers to invest capital in their camera businesses in the hope of generating growth.

**yucatanPentax** · 03-04-2023, 02:45 AM

Didn't China have a lot of lockdowns continuing still in January?
In other words, was it demand that was lower, supply that was lower, shipping that was lower? Or a combination of all? I don't know the answer, which is why I'm asking.

Mistral75 · 03-04-2023, 05:26 AM

Originally posted by yucatanPentax

Didn't China have a lot of lockdowns continuing still in January?
(...)

China abandoned the zero Covid policy around 7 December 2022. Besides, there was a lockdown in China in January 2022 so, all else being equal, January 2023 should have been better than January 2022.

It was not, both in China (minus 24% in units / minus 4% in ¥) and (even more) globally (minus 35% in units / minus 19% in ¥).

**RGlasel** · 03-04-2023, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by subsea

I wonder how true it actually is….

Not very. 2020 was an annus horibbilis for camera manufacturers, with more than 40% drop in total digital camera unit shipments (and more than 25% drop for mirrorless) compared to 2019. ILC shipments (both DSLRs and ML) stabilized in 2021 and mirrorless saw a 31% increase from 2021 to 2022. That is the statistic that Asia Times has cherry picked. However compared to 2019, mirrorless unit shipments in 2022 only increased by 3% and overall ILC units declined by 30% from 2019 to 2022. Average value per unit has definitely increased, but by itself, that isn't much of a reason to be optimistic.

normhead · 03-04-2023, 09:40 AM - **1 Like**

The largest number of images from a manufacturer on Flickr has been Apple for many years now. My current phone has 4 lenses and is smaller and easier to use than any ILC camera. I like my DSLRs, but I choose my spots to use them these days.

My new off brand camera....an iPhone 14 pro - PentaxForums.com

Wheatfield · 03-04-2023, 11:50 AM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by normhead

The largest number of images from a manufacturer on Flickr has been Apple for many years now. My current phone has 4 lenses and is smaller and easier to use than any ILC camera. I like my DSLRs, but I choose my spots to use them these days.

This has more to do with the market penetration of cell phones in general than anything else. Everyone has a cell phone, not everyone has a dedicated camera, and those that do don't have them glued to their bodies the way cell phone users have their phones attached to them. I suspect that cell phone users are more prolific posters because of how easy these devices make it to post to social media.
Quantity only equates to popularity, which isn't necessarily the best metric for judging photographs.

**c.a.m** · 03-04-2023, 11:52 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Quantity only equates to popularity, which isn't necessarily the best metric for judging photographs.

Nor hamburgers.

Yes, the overwhelming popularity and usage of phone cameras eclipses that of stand-alone cameras. IMO, I think the 'normal' camera market became saturated a number of years ago, and users are updating their gear at a lower rate. I'd imagine that most of the people who use phone cameras now might never have owned a normal camera.

- Craig

Wheatfield · 03-04-2023, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by c.a.m

Nor hamburgers.

Yes, the overwhelming popularity and usage of phone cameras eclipses that of stand-alone cameras. IMO, I think the 'normal' camera market became saturated a number of years ago, and users are updating their gear at a lower rate. I'd imagine that most of the people who use phone cameras now might never have owned a normal camera.

- Craig

Absolutely. If volume meant anything, McDonald's has the best burgers in the world.
For myself, camera upgrades have slowed down a lot. My last Pentax upgrade was the K1 in May 2016 and I went almost 11 years before upgrading my Fuji body.
I've upgraded my phone 3 times since I bought my Fuji in 2014.

normhead · 03-04-2023, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Absolutely. If volume meant anything, McDonald's has the best burgers in the world.
For myself, camera upgrades have slowed down a lot. My last Pentax upgrade was the K1 in May 2016 and I went almost 12 years before upgrading my Fuji body.
I've upgraded my phone 3 times since I bought my Fuji in 2014.

You got me there, but, I can't eat the food at MacDonalds.... I can use my cellphone.

Wheatfield · 03-04-2023, 12:27 PM - **2 Likes**

Originally posted by normhead

You got me there, but, I can't at the food at MacDonalds.... I can use my cellphone.

Heck, I can barely call it food.

03-03-2023, 07:50 AM - 2 Likes	#1
subsea Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Commack, NY Posts: 2,605	Interesting story from the Asia Times https://asiatimes.com/2023/03/digital-camera-sales-clicking-back-to-life/ I wonder how true it actually is…. (Moderators feel free to move this if you wish or delete it if it’s covered somewhere else.)

03-04-2023, 11:52 AM - 1 Like	#12
c.a.m Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: Ottawa, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,192	Originally posted by Wheatfield Quantity only equates to popularity, which isn't necessarily the best metric for judging photographs. Nor hamburgers. Yes, the overwhelming popularity and usage of phone cameras eclipses that of stand-alone cameras. IMO, I think the 'normal' camera market became saturated a number of years ago, and users are updating their gear at a lower rate. I'd imagine that most of the people who use phone cameras now might never have owned a normal camera. - Craig Last edited by c.a.m; 03-04-2023 at 11:58 AM.

03-04-2023, 12:07 PM	#13
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by c.a.m Nor hamburgers. Yes, the overwhelming popularity and usage of phone cameras eclipses that of stand-alone cameras. IMO, I think the 'normal' camera market became saturated a number of years ago, and users are updating their gear at a lower rate. I'd imagine that most of the people who use phone cameras now might never have owned a normal camera. - Craig Absolutely. If volume meant anything, McDonald's has the best burgers in the world. For myself, camera upgrades have slowed down a lot. My last Pentax upgrade was the K1 in May 2016 and I went almost 11 years before upgrading my Fuji body. I've upgraded my phone 3 times since I bought my Fuji in 2014. Last edited by Wheatfield; 03-04-2023 at 02:54 PM.

03-04-2023, 12:15 PM	#14
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	Originally posted by Wheatfield Absolutely. If volume meant anything, McDonald's has the best burgers in the world. For myself, camera upgrades have slowed down a lot. My last Pentax upgrade was the K1 in May 2016 and I went almost 12 years before upgrading my Fuji body. I've upgraded my phone 3 times since I bought my Fuji in 2014. You got me there, but, I can't eat the food at MacDonalds.... I can use my cellphone. Last edited by normhead; 03-04-2023 at 06:34 PM.

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03-03-2023, 08:10 AM	#2
jersey Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: 3City agglomeration Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 2,061	Well, looks like camera sales stabilized, more or less, and companies start to increase revenue by raising prices and selling more "top of the line" rather then consumer grade. Nothing surprising I would say. I wonder what price tags will be on new Pentax bodies and lenses.

03-03-2023, 09:13 AM	#3
yucatanPentax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas / Yucatan Posts: 1,841	Originally posted by jersey Well, looks like camera sales stabilized, more or less, and companies start to increase revenue by raising prices and selling more "top of the line" rather then consumer grade. Nothing surprising I would say. I wonder what price tags will be on new Pentax bodies and lenses. Has Pentax already done that with their latest lenses and the K-3iii ? Seems like it!

03-03-2023, 11:21 AM - 1 Like	#4
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	2022 was a year of stabilisation in units (-4%) and recovery in value (+39%). 2023 begins poorly.

03-03-2023, 02:24 PM	#5
ehrwien Site Supporter Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 2,784	Originally posted by Mistral75 2023 begins poorly. I predict it will continue poorly. Inflation doesn't leave people with much money to spend on non-essentials.

03-03-2023, 03:38 PM	#6
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,229	Originally posted by Mistral75 2023 begins poorly. That's a bit of an understatement. Not only is January 2023 down 35.4% from January 2022, but this decrease is even worse than the January 2021 to January 2020 comparison (-20.9%). January 2023 shipments are 46.6% of January 2020 shipments (and January 2020 was down 19.6% from January 2019. The biggest drop is with fixed lens cameras, 112,539 units in 1/23 compared to 358,316 in 1/20, but DSLRs aren't far behind, 56,298 units in 1/23 compared to 227,486 in 1/20. Even mirrorless is down over the same period, 205,930 units vs 218,544 in 1/20. Mirrorless shipments in January 2022 were 224,698 units, so after the mirrorless market flucuating by less than 3% from year to year from 2019 to 2022, January 2023 is down 8.4%. If a graph of January shipments from 2020 to 2023 was a ski hill, it would be a double black diamond run. For non-skiers, digital camera sales overall have fallen off a cliff after sliding down a steep slope from 2013 to 2019. One month does not an unstoppable trend make, but don't expect manufacturers to invest capital in their camera businesses in the hope of generating growth.

03-04-2023, 02:45 AM	#7
yucatanPentax Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Dallas / Yucatan Posts: 1,841	Didn't China have a lot of lockdowns continuing still in January? In other words, was it demand that was lower, supply that was lower, shipping that was lower? Or a combination of all? I don't know the answer, which is why I'm asking.

03-04-2023, 05:26 AM	#8
Mistral75 Pentaxian Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Paris, France Posts: 7,527	Originally posted by yucatanPentax Didn't China have a lot of lockdowns continuing still in January? (...) China abandoned the zero Covid policy around 7 December 2022. Besides, there was a lockdown in China in January 2022 so, all else being equal, January 2023 should have been better than January 2022. It was not, both in China (minus 24% in units / minus 4% in ¥) and (even more) globally (minus 35% in units / minus 19% in ¥).

03-04-2023, 09:22 AM	#9
RGlasel Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Saskatoon Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,229	Originally posted by subsea I wonder how true it actually is…. Not very. 2020 was an annus horibbilis for camera manufacturers, with more than 40% drop in total digital camera unit shipments (and more than 25% drop for mirrorless) compared to 2019. ILC shipments (both DSLRs and ML) stabilized in 2021 and mirrorless saw a 31% increase from 2021 to 2022. That is the statistic that Asia Times has cherry picked. However compared to 2019, mirrorless unit shipments in 2022 only increased by 3% and overall ILC units declined by 30% from 2019 to 2022. Average value per unit has definitely increased, but by itself, that isn't much of a reason to be optimistic.

03-04-2023, 09:40 AM - 1 Like	#10
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,451	The largest number of images from a manufacturer on Flickr has been Apple for many years now. My current phone has 4 lenses and is smaller and easier to use than any ILC camera. I like my DSLRs, but I choose my spots to use them these days. My new off brand camera....an iPhone 14 pro - PentaxForums.com

03-04-2023, 11:50 AM - 2 Likes	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by normhead The largest number of images from a manufacturer on Flickr has been Apple for many years now. My current phone has 4 lenses and is smaller and easier to use than any ILC camera. I like my DSLRs, but I choose my spots to use them these days. This has more to do with the market penetration of cell phones in general than anything else. Everyone has a cell phone, not everyone has a dedicated camera, and those that do don't have them glued to their bodies the way cell phone users have their phones attached to them. I suspect that cell phone users are more prolific posters because of how easy these devices make it to post to social media. Quantity only equates to popularity, which isn't necessarily the best metric for judging photographs.

03-04-2023, 12:27 PM - 2 Likes	#15
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,986	Originally posted by normhead You got me there, but, I can't at the food at MacDonalds.... I can use my cellphone. Heck, I can barely call it food.