[Buddha Jones]

Working in Corporate America has it's perks... it pays the bills, but I feel like I am constantly looking over my shoulder lately. (I work for Wachovia/Wells-Fargo)

My website company has it's perks, I can release my creative side and get some play money but dealing with people/clients is starting to wear on my.

The only thing that relaxes me and excites me all at the same time is photography. It is even more instant gratification than building a site. Here is my dilema, well I have a few dilemas actually.

1. I am scared that one day photography will begin to feel like work and I will not enjoy it like I do now.

2. As I am growing as a photographer my styles and interests have changed, how am I supposed to organize what it is that I am doing and liking and make money from it.

Starting my web company was easy, I already had clients before I even went incorporated. How do I break into the photography world where there seems to be so many out there.

I guess what I want to know, if anyone is willing to tell me, where do I go from here?

[Marc Langille]

Very few kinds of photography pay well and often, especially today. Basically most of the better paying ones involve working with and photographing people.... and dealing with the idiosyncrasies of human nature. Unless it architecture/product based image work or a similar niche market that you can carve out. I may be wrong, but that's what I've seen. Perhaps someone else can offer some thoughts?

The market is becoming saturated in many areas. I'd suggest do it part time and see how it goes. Probably not what you wanted to hear, but I'd rather be honest on that Jay...

Regards,
Marc

Decide what kind of photography you want to concentrate on. Then... network, network, network.

[Douglas_of_Sweden]

I can relate to how you feel and think about this. Sometimes when fighting with the more bureaucratic sides of running a research group at a University (such as writing proposals to get money to new projects, keeping budgets, negotiating salaries, writing reports to Bryssel on EU-projects...) I still wish I would have become a photographer instead. But if you rewind some 20 years or so to when I still were choosing between a career as photographer or a science career, I was strongly inlfuenced by some photorgraphers I had met. They were not among the famoused few who could shoot what they wanted, but worked to pay the bills each months, and they were complaining that they had so little influence on what they shot, that they were tired on shooting the same things again and again. So I decided I wanted to keep photo as a hobby. I know this is not entirely logical, since succeeding as a scientific researcher establishing your own group etc. is probably about as difficult as it is to succeed to such a degree as a photorgrapher that you can choose your jobs. So maybe I just wanted an excuse for my choice. In anyway, that was how I was thinking back then. As much as I may regret my choice now and then, I'm hapy with it most of the time.

[jmbradd]

I'm on that wavelength...I'm going to be a member of the class of 2010, one of the worst times to graduate in recent memory. I'm sure a job in my field will eventually pop up and I'd enjoy it, but what better job is there than expressing yourself? I found a great deal on hosting so I sort of jumped the gun on creating a website. I really wouldn't have started it until I had more exposure and a better portfolio.

Just from what i've read from other photographers and the advice given in this thread already, do it part time but work very hard in that part time. Carve out a niche, develop a website that reflects that niche and network.

ps. I've got plenty of space for links on my low traffic site if you ever want to place one

[heliphoto]

I'm with you man, and while I'm not making money with photography (yet), I do want to comment on #1...

1. I am scared that one day photography will begin to feel like work and I will not enjoy it like I do now.

...

I feel qualified to to comment on #1 since I've really just had a succession of this type of "passion motivated" jobs rather than any sort of career... My resume includes:
ski instructor, ski patroller, mountaineering gear salesperson / whitwater kayaking instructor, wildland firefighter, helicopter flight instructor, helicopter tour pilot, firefighting helicopter pilot (my current gig)... I called these "passion motivated" jobs 'cause I convinced someone to pay me for pursuing a passion - for doing something I would like to be doing anyway (skiing / kayaking / playing with fire / flying helicopters etc...).

My experience has been that I'm almost always happy to go to work, but there are times when because of conditions, or personalities, you can hate one of these great jobs just as much as a "normal" job... If you have a passion for photography (which obviously you do), more often than not, you'll be happy every time the shutter clicks and you know the image you're after is captured.

I'll agree with Marc (based on instinct rather than first hand knowledge) that the money is in photographing people (with obvious exceptions), but contrary to a couple of the responses so far, I would try to avoid being pigeonholed in a small niche, for your own sake. Lets say, you developed a niche shooting just graduation / prom / senior portrait type of work... you may eventually make a decent living just focusing on this one type of work, but repetition - the feeling of being stuck in a rut is where any job, "will begin to feel like work..." I say pursue that work (or whatever can be your bread and butter - weddings come to mind ), while cultivating other styles too - product shots, food photography, golf photography, etc. whatever interests you and you can do justice to, try to keep your hand in that type too, because variety is what keeps a job interesting for the long haul.

Honestly, in this market, I'd probably grip white knuckled to any job you still have, and try to get photography "work experience" in your spare time, but I don't know your situation well enough to really comment. I'm imagining that some of your web design clients may need photography too (whether they know it or now ), and you may be able to leverage some work out of your existing relationship..

A question/caution I have is in regard to your comment, "My website company has it's perks, I can release my creative side and get some play money but dealing with people/clients is starting to wear on my."... What is it about the people/clients which is wearing on you? Because I imagine it will be the same or worse when they're paying you for photography. Seriously, I think that dealing with ridiculous clients is the hardest part of every job - you want their money, but you just wish they'd go away sometimes - this continues to be true even when dropping water on wild fires - it's the people side of the job which is often the hardest (no offense to my main fire crew I work with - you guys rock! (I don't think they read this forum, but one of 'em does own a K20D - he may lurk here... you here Justin?)).

Finally, don't get discouraged about a field just because it's already fairly saturated... you don't have to be in the job longer than everyone,you just have to be better than a fair number of 'em .

[George Lama]

It's certainly a big step to take, leaving the day job and trying to make it in an apparently overcrowded line of work.

I read an interesting article discussing what it takes for photographers to make a living out of their photography. In a survey of PPA members, they found that a large majority (can't find the article for the life of me) either had a "day job" or had a spouse who provided the insurance and a salary to compensate.

I myself have a day job as an IT guy and carry the insurance. As much as I would like to dedicate my time 100% to the photo-business, it's just not happening, not with a baby in the house. So I've decided to keep my day-job as the 9-5 deal, and my photography as the nights and weekends deal. It's worked very well for the past two years and expect it to work just as well this year.

Here's what I am currently doing and perhaps you can pick and chose what could work for you:

• I am sticking to the day job as long as necessary to lay the foundation for the photo business. I'm lucky I love my job, so it's not an either/or proposition for me.
• I don't concern myself with how many other photogs are in my area, but more about identifying the true competition.
• Having a day job affords me to be picky. I've identified my specialty/focus areas to be wedding and HS seniors, with limited portraiture and commercial photography when I deem it appropriate. This helps differentiate me from the competition. If they want to take the $25 jobs and $300 weddings, more power to them.
• I took a real good look at my local competition and was surprised to find out that many photographers are not doing what my wife and I work so hard at - work hard at being professional in everything, down to the quality of our business cards we hand out to people, to dressing up when meeting customers at a cozy coffee shop in town where we can talk business while enjoying a wonderful cup of coffee or tea.
• I know networking is important, but I also do advertise in local media, use word of mouth, and post on social networking sites.
• I belong to professional photography organizations and advertise that fact. Many of my competitors aren't affiliated, so that gives me an edge.

Hope some of this helps.

[Marc Langille]

To clarify about Josh's remarks on my "niche market" comment: I don't believe in marketing or doing a foray into 1-2 areas of photography. You don't grow from it... I just prefer doing a couple kinds of photography over most others. I will do more people related image work in the future, it's just not want I wish to do right now. Avoiding repetition is why I am not doing a lot of people related work right now, so we certainly are in full agreement on that point.

For example I've shot receptions & events in the past. I don't normally post them online because I always honor the wishes of the folks involved, model release, etc.. Normally it's for portfolio usage only and to provide examples of my work to others.

Regards,
Marc

[cwood]

I spent a good chunk of my life living under the assumption that work is what you do so you can go have fun. Then a while ago I asked myself WTF? Why shouldn't I do something I really like doing. Yah sure you're gonna hate it sometimes but so what - you're still gonna like it the rest of the time which is more than a lot of working stiffs can say.

When you are starting out ... scratch that... ALWAYS you need to work on your niche in photography. Its more important when your starting out to get a really good portfolio but that ONE thing is what will get you known and pay your bills. The "other" stuff that is not your specialty- that is what keeps the job fun and adds to your skill and services. Most of my money is made shooting sports because I have made connections, provided good service and product for a good price and there is enough going on right now to keep the jobs flowing. The next busiest part of my portfolio is weddings and engagements which I really enjoy doing but they are seasonal and only happen on weekends. After that I work with models on occasion, I recently got hooked up with a studio that specializes in product shooting and I like to travel so I started writing articles about my trips. All this other stuff is fun but it does not pay the bills. Fashion magazines do not call me asking to shoot their cover... I can't see that ever happening. But mountain bike magazines call me on a semi-regular basis looking for content.

As for how to get into it this is here my advice. Do it slowly because photography is viewed as a luxury item right now so a lot of people are trying to "do it themselves". But even if you are just doing it part time (on weekends) you still need to take on every job with 100% professionalism. If someone wants you to do a job that requires a 600mm lens don't tell them you can do it and then try to run a 2x converter on your 300/4. Rent a lens or a whole camera system if you have to so the job is done right. I see a lot of people "starting to get into selling pictures" shooting with the wrong gear, then not editing the pictures properly (if you have to shoot high ISO then you probably should buy Noise Ninja or some equivalent). Just don't sell yourself and the industry short by providing a sub-standard product because you are only "part time".

Finally - and I'm sorry to say this, but make sure that Pentax can fill your needs. Pentax makes fantastic stuff but there is a reason that I had to go out and buy a 1DmkIII. Remember to use the right tool for the job - sometimes (for me) its Pentax and sometimes its Canon. Since neither company is paying me or providing me with free gear I can't afford to be loyal.

Good luck

[cwood]

I just thought I'd add one more thing about how bad it is in photography right now. I was called to provide a quote for doing some product shooting for a catalog- big stuff about 8ft wide and 2 feet tall. Its not something I do and I don't know how they got my info but I was happy to provide a quote. I would have to purchase several sets of white sheets because the shoot was to happen in a room painted orange. I needed to rent (I estimated) 4-5 studio lights. And I planned on doing the shoot with my $4000 canon camera using the 16-35 lens ($1500 lens). Since this was not my Niche but it sounded interesting I decided to bid on it at $200/image (the guys I know who do this for a living said they would charge a lot more than that). It turns out several people offered to do the job for half of what I offered and I did not get the job.

At a minimum this was going to take $10,000 worth of gear to pull this off (some of it rented) with at least 8 hours of shooting and probably 30 hrs of editing. In the end (after expenses) I would have made about the same working at In&Out flipping burgers. But it appears that either there's a bunch of desperate photographers right now or whoever got hired to do that shoot has NO IDEA what they are getting themselves into. Either way it does me no good as a working professional to have to waste my time responding to inquires like that.

[jezza323]

At a minimum this was going to take $10,000 worth of gear to pull this off (some of it rented) with at least 8 hours of shooting and probably 30 hrs of editing. In the end (after expenses) I would have made about the same working at In&Out flipping burgers. But it appears that either there's a bunch of desperate photographers right now or whoever got hired to do that shoot has NO IDEA what they are getting themselves into. Either way it does me no good as a working professional to have to waste my time responding to inquires like that.

well you know what they say, pay peanuts get monkeys

you might get a call back for the re-shoot yet!

[George Lama]

I've had that happen and I agree, you get what you pay for. I mean, I know my market - after all, I live in a small town 50 miles from Rochester and Buffalo and I know I cannot price my services at the same price point as other photogs in those metro areas.

That said, there are people in my area who offer to do all day weddings for $300 bucks, with two shooters. At first I was miffed but then I realized that instead of seeing them as competition, I had to start thinking of them as a different tier of services altogether. In other words, if someone is looking for a $300 wedding shoot, chances are I don't want to be involved with it anyway.

I learned that from senior shoots... Up until last year I offered an affordable package thinking I would sell them more photos once they saw them. That was not the case at all, so for this season I doubled the price of the lowest package and made it so the more expensive package is the best deal of all.

I would say stick to your guns - if your prices are fair with the market you are selling to, then don't lower your prices just to get the gig. As Jezza said, if the people who got the gig screw it up, you might just get the call to fix it!

[MJB DIGITAL]

Working in Corporate America has it's perks... it pays the bills, but I feel like I am constantly looking over my shoulder lately. (I work for Wachovia/Wells-Fargo)

My website company has it's perks, I can release my creative side and get some play money but dealing with people/clients is starting to wear on my.

The only thing that relaxes me and excites me all at the same time is photography. It is even more instant gratification than building a site. Here is my dilema, well I have a few dilemas actually.

1. I am scared that one day photography will begin to feel like work and I will not enjoy it like I do now.

2. As I am growing as a photographer my styles and interests have changed, how am I supposed to organize what it is that I am doing and liking and make money from it.

Starting my web company was easy, I already had clients before I even went incorporated. How do I break into the photography world where there seems to be so many out there.

I guess what I want to know, if anyone is willing to tell me, where do I go from here?

You need to find your niche market before striking out. But even before that, you can accept payment for small jobs, prepare some large prints of what you LIKE to shoot for gallery.....basically, just start building your business from the inside out. I would suggest making a logo and letterhead. I found that as my business grows, I need a new document every so often, and it needs a logo/letterhead.....

[soccerjoe5]

Sent you a PM Buddha