[tr13]

Pentax FF is not solution. But it is required to push knowledge about brand.

Cheapest thing that I can propose - making all current cameras to work with any old Pentax lens from M42 to KA as good as possible. And here I mean adjusting SR distance by weel, working flash with M42 and K lenses, no need for stop down metering. And few other things.

Make all this and make special small virus advertizements how you could buy $40 good old lens and use it as full function stabialized and very useful thing.
I don't mean that all are interested in using old manual lenses, but it allow many people to look at Pentax brand at different perspective.
I could call this advertizement compaign under "Camera for the smartest" :-)

[Atindra]

My gripe is about lack of advertisement efforts by Pentax. Pentax seems to think that good customers will come to them automatically and no need to call them/lure them.
Pentax doesnt even have proper distribution chains in countries like India. They have one distributor in Delhi who stock 10 other electronic useless thingies like MP3 Players etc. With such a distributor nobody would take Pentax seriously. I'm sure not a single person in such distributor's staff would know a damn thing about Pentax.
K-7 and K-x are amazingly priced and feature rich cams but not a single one to find in India in any stores or even online.
I dont think Pentax needs to go FF to make people think about them as serious brand. They need to build good distribution chain from the grass roots-a proper marketing strategy. They need to identify teen-icons, youth icons in various large market countries and use them as brand ambassadors.
Pentax needs to set priorities.
1. Strong Marketing
2. Strengthen the lens line-up
3. Get good electronic Partner (may be Casio is good choice)
4. Planned advancement in Camera gear 645 and FF.

Atindra

[Barnster]

My thought on all this is that Nikon and Canon are in your face,no matter where you go in the camera world.I made a thread a while back about being at the Sydney PMA,where Nikon and Canon took up all the entry space and the Pentax store was hidden among the crowd.To me,that is no way to get and promote the Pentax brand out there.They need to compete stroke for stroke with the other two brands or they will be left paddling on the horizon.That would be a sad day for all us Pentax fans.The quality is there,but the push from Pentax isn't.

[monochrome]

My 17 & 28 year old daughters, for example, want to start taking up photography as a hobby and, consequently, want me to buy them "good" cameras, like the ones they sees Ashton Kutsher peddling on TV 100 times a day. Their friends, all of whom own Nikons or Canons, have either never heard of Pentax, or think of it along the lines of a Casio.

In addition to Peter's comments, Pentax lacks the pro service turnaround necessary for pro shooters.

My 25 year old daughter learned to shoot in High School Photography class on a K1000, and eventually became Yearbook Photography Editor and then Editor-in-Chief of a nationally-competitive yearbook. She took my KX and K lenses to New Mexico for a college Winter-Term, 6-week, intense Landscape B&W class. Her instructor publicly praised her glass, and another student who brought an F1 and some S.S.C. lenses. (The course required a FULLY MANUAL camera - NO electronics - due to cold weather).

She is now an Assistant Producer for a network news bureau in D.C. When she bought her own camera last year she went to Nikon because her photo-journalist friends shoot Nikon.

To my daughter, Pentax is a "School Camera" or "Dad's Camera" (it's not your father's Buick any more, right Tiger?). It is a stepping stone. Nikon is the aspirational brand for hobbyists and Canon is the beauty brand for acquirers.

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Last edited by monochrome; 10-27-2009 at 07:37 PM.

[dylansalt]

Lusting for a Nikon SLR/DSLR (to be seen as a true aspirational/serious/pro photographer) has been a generational thing since the beginning of time - well at least from when I was 20 which is already 29 years ago;-)

Now with more maturity I know it doesn't really matter - it's the end result - the picture - that matters

Dylan

[rparmar]

Now with more maturity I know it doesn't really matter - it's the end result - the picture - that matters

Pictures don't make themselves. And neither is being a good photographer enough. Every photographer I know needs a camera. And the camera brand you use does indeed impact the shots you get to take.

We are talking pro use in this thread. So here's a question for you.

You're covering a car rally in the Sahara. Your 400mm lens falls apart after it hits a rock. You trek back to the nearest town and place a call to support. You want the number of the nearest store that can ship you a lens by later that day. You'll even pay the taxi fare from the nearest drop point. Because otherwise you lose the assignment and the five grand you'll be getting paid.

Which brand do you think would give you the best chance of success? Pentax or Nikon?

[alohadave]

It seems to be working for Sony.

Sony is also quite a bit larger and has more cash than Hoya does. They can make cameras as loss leaders to build market share for the future.

[Wheatfield]

Sony is also quite a bit larger and has more cash than Hoya does. They can make cameras as loss leaders to build market share for the future.

This has nothing to do with the question I commented on.

[Ash]

You're covering a car rally in the Sahara. Your 400mm lens falls apart after it hits a rock. You trek back to the nearest town and place a call to support. You want the number of the nearest store that can ship you a lens by later that day. You'll even pay the taxi fare from the nearest drop point. Because otherwise you lose the assignment and the five grand you'll be getting paid.

Which brand do you think would give you the best chance of success? Pentax or Nikon?

Neither. Somali pirates will find the shipment and hold it for ransom...

[rparmar]

Neither. Somali pirates will find the shipment and hold it for ransom...

Only if their range of operation has changed from one part of Africa to another. And maybe it has. I'm kind of slack in keeping up with my Somali Pirate news feed. Aaar! Matey!

[jmc7104]

Well for what it is worth, I for one am happy with Pentax/Hoya attatude and sales procedure. I currently own Five DSLR's of which three of them were bought as new in box with kit lenses and two were bought used on e-bay, istDL,k100 k100S K10, and K20, and I have less than 2000. dollars in total cost of cameras. Basket full of various lenses to go with them IS in every one of them 25% auto focus 75% fully manual. Try to set up the equivilant with either Cannon or Nikon. So my point is, if pentax become popular and everyone wanted one,or three, or six plus a wash tub full of lens, WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO COST???? and I ment to raise my voice. A classic example of this is the very desirable " fast 50mm and the Vivitar 105mm".
My rant for the day. jim

[Ash]

That's been my point each time someone complains about Pentax's poor marketing and poor ability to keep up with the standards of the top guns, Jim.

I for one would prefer Pentax to remain targeting the niche group it's done well attracting, remaining the best value for money system and a selection of top glass, new and legacy...

[lesmore49]

Sony is also quite a bit larger and has more cash than Hoya does. They can make cameras as loss leaders to build market share for the future.

Sony ain't doing so well as of late. Hoya is not that small. I read somewhere that they have around 32,000 employees.

[lesmore49]

Lately I've noticed that almost all pro photographers or even amateurs always go for Nikon or Canon DSLRs over Pentax DSLRs. Why?
What happened to the love for Pentax that it had back when the M42 or K mounts were introduced?

I bought my first slr back in '68. I worked in the publishing industry back then and a publisher told me I would have to make myself more valuable by also taking publishable pictures.

The choice the publishing company gave me....get a 35 mm slr...get either a Pentax or a Nikon...back then Canon although well respected for their old Rangefinders were not really in the hunt. They had the Pellix...but not too many photographers used them.

Nikon then was the big 35 mm camera for pros...some used Leica. Some were still using Rollie TLR medium format.

This is all memory so I could be out a bit. Canon introduced the F1 around '70-71...a pro camera that was competitive with the Nikon F. It took years and lots of money and placements by Canon...but eventually they displaced Nikon...around the 90's sometime I would say.

Pentax brought out the K series...K2, K2 DMD, KX...Mx, etc....all good, but not competitive with the Nikon F series or Canon F1.

The LX was a beautiful pro camera but didn't make much of a dent in the pro market...factory support that couldn't compete with N + C, I think..also accessories, lenses didn't have the huge variety.

The pro market is funny...there's the wedding guys, sports and newspapers, studio...It used to be that most wedding photogs were medium format...Mamiya TLR's , 67, 645, Pentax 6 X 7, Hassleblad, Bronica...they dominated but in digital have priced themselves out of the market...so more wedding photographers now I think go with Nikon, Canon...as do sports shooters, newspapers, magazines. Nikon and Canon FF are so entrenched in the pro market that they would be hard to dislodge...I don't see any changes there. I sometimes think Sony is wasting their time with their FF 'pro' models...who uses them ???

I almost made the switch from Pentax in 2007...I came close to the Nikon D200 or the Canon 30D. I didn't stay with Pentax because of the lenses I had, I did so becaus of the Pentax K10D...I though with the SR, the sensor cleaning, the weather resistant aspect, it was the best in the advanced amateur/ semi pro.

Did I make the right decision? I don't know...I've had Pentax since '68, I'm pleased with my K10D, my KM, my 16-45, 55-300, 50, f 1.4, my 10-17 fisheye.



Why is Pentax the red-headed step-child of the DSLR industry? Is there a quality or ease-of-use issue that I'm just not seeing here? I like my K200D quite fine thankyouverymuch. I like being out of the mainstream crowd by being a Pentax user, but I'm still curious as to why Pentax doesn't get much love anymore.

Advertising, visibility in the marketplace. When I bought my 10-17 a short while ago I was talking to the knowledgeable clerks and they said that people who buy Pentax are usually older customers who have had Pentax for a long time, have lot's of lenses...that kind of thing. Young people aren't aware of Pentax...and then he turned around and showed me the large poster of ...is it Avril Lavigne the young pop singer with her Canon in print and TV adverts.

When I go out shooting...as far as DSLR's are concerned it's mostly Canon (overwhelmingly) then to a lesser extent, Nikon...then Pentax...quite a ways down. Sony is sold by lot's of stores here, but very uncommon...then a smattering of Olympus...I wonder if their 4/3rds system was wise....

[LeDave]

Well they need to advertise more, advertise more! I can't believe that after all the crazy K-x hype out there, there is not one, not even one single advertisement or any knowledge of the K-x out there in Camera stores or to the people out there. The K-x would definitely be a big help for Pentax if only they knew how to advertise correcctly. Nobody here knows about a Pentax, they didn't know Pentax still exists! Before I bought my K2000 as my first DSLR, my friend kept telling me how Pentax uses outdated technology and he hasn't heard from them making a new DSLR in a long long time! He himself didn't even know the K20D, K200D, and K-m even existed! I got the K-m and he went and bought the D5000, compared his D5000 to mine, his pictures came out with more dynamic range, better JPEG iso noise levels and overall better iso noise levels, and even AF points on the viewfinder. Until I got my K-7, I proved him wrong that Pentax is still up to date and still makes quality DSLR's even though nobody's heard of it! The K-7 may not have the high ISO noise levels as good as the D5000, but it still is good and the ergonomics of the K-7 is definitely a monster!

Even the K-7 is unknown of by many, despite that it's been in a few magazines a few times, etc. etc. But they need to do more, the K-x is already out! The K-x white and red are about to be out! And yet NOBODY knows! It's soooo sad, Pentax is coming out with these great DSLR's and great features and technology yet it gets no love at all.

Before I know it all, Pentax is being seperated by Hoya to either be sold or who knows what it's fate is.... I know they say they won't shut down Pentax, but I just really hope Pentax really get going on this game. Everybody's buying Nikon and Canon because Nikon and Canon are everywhere, they are in advertisements everywhere, every page you flip through the magazine, they are on there. You go to every retail store and they are on there. Everybody's talking about Canon and Nikon, everybody's getting Canon and Nikon and NOT a bit considering about Pentax because they don't know what the heck it is or they think it's dead!

I just hope that if Pentax ever goes big, they won't go down and dirty like Sony is. Sony started off with solid bodies like their first one or two line-ups, then as they become more known and more bigger, they decide they can just cut off the quality of their bodies because people will continue buying it since it's more known now. The A700 is a good example of quality, it is a beauty and the body is just great, and it's APS-C. Now Sony only produces the quality bodies for their full frames. No APS-C bodies under 1,200 comes close to the bodies that Pentax makes, and the A700 from Sony is the closest APS-C that I have seen comparable to the Pentax bodies, but will Sony ever produce a APS-C body again with that quality for that price? I bet not... Sony overprice lenses to the max although it is branded "Zeiss" but that doesn't cut it for me, a lens is a lens and a optics is a optics, and despite the name, the Sony's Zeiss line-up may be no more better than the DA*'s, who knows? But what I know is the Pentax's DA*'s build quality is superior to the Zeiss's, especially with thick strong rubber all around the rings and being weather-sealed and all. Heck, even Sony's lenses cost more than Canon's....