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01-04-2010, 06:26 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by MJB DIGITAL Quote
I consider myself to be a heavy shooter. I pull about 600 and my assistant will normally pull the same. (max)

Generally we come out with an average of about a thousand shots.

I know that it is MANY more shots than old school shooters used to take, but it is digital now and clients expect more shots.

At the office, I tend to cull the total number down to about 700 by pulling dupes and bad exposures.

On a 10 hr wedding gig, 600 shots would average about a photo a minute. During dinner you wont get anything but I shoot about ten of the ring exchange, five of the kiss and any exciting or emotional moment gets heavy coverage.

A lot of times I'm creating (congruent) dupes on purpose with slightly different comps such as, subject on the left, subject on the right, vertical and landscape. Yes, I do give these kinds of dupes to the client but I shoot them mainly to aid me in composing the layout of the wedding album.

Click the link in my sig and you will be able to find some wedding album layouts and maybe understand why I want to cover heavy and have different compositions.

That all being said.

If you spray and pray, you wont work for me!

While I'm shooting, I consider myself to be either 'riding the light' or 'driving my camera'. I'm constantly thinking about my exposure and layout while my eye (including the eyes on the sides and back of my head) stay tuned into any emotional or significant events.

I typed too much.
That's fine, but do you send 700 to the client?

01-04-2010, 06:51 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Peter Zack Quote
I compete with these idiots all the time. They offer a low price, which entices the client
I have been to three weddings lately, 2 were expensive photographers and 1 was cheap.. Actually the worst was one of the expensive ones (infact I think the most expensive) from a company with a number of different photographers (so not a one man operation).. So price isn't a good test either, you don't always get what you pay for :-/

The cheapest did simply provide a DVD with all the photos on it, but that is what the couple wanted so it suited them..
01-04-2010, 07:33 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Those you mentioned are not a good gauge on the standards of the profession. They're everywhere - I see them also, OTOH they're not an adequately justified impetus to proclaim "I can do it better" and jump into the industry.

Wise choice in declining to do your friends' weddings - but if you shoot professionally in other capacities there's less to learn to get into it and do it well . All the best in choosing their photographers.
They are everywhere I know, it's a sad realization that it has come to that in this age.

I was talking to one of my friends today as she wanted to buy a new camera and said "all the photographers we interviewed for our wedding used Canon MKII's, so I want to get a Rebel as it is a canon" I just about kicked myself when she said that.

There is much to go through when it comes to wedding photographers, I'm sure one day I'll get into it, but for now I'll stick to other events that keep my hands full.
01-04-2010, 09:30 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gaelen Quote
I was talking to one of my friends today as she wanted to buy a new camera and said "all the photographers we interviewed for our wedding used Canon MKII's, so I want to get a Rebel as it is a canon" I just about kicked myself when she said that.

.
Monkey see monkey do... but that's OK too...
Everyone wants to 'feel' like a pro even if they aren't one...

01-04-2010, 09:33 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
That's fine, but do you send 700 to the client?
The seven hundred that I choose to be keepers are all available to the client.
01-04-2010, 11:52 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by joele Quote
I have been to three weddings lately, 2 were expensive photographers and 1 was cheap.. Actually the worst was one of the expensive ones (infact I think the most expensive) from a company with a number of different photographers (so not a one man operation).. So price isn't a good test either, you don't always get what you pay for :-/

The cheapest did simply provide a DVD with all the photos on it, but that is what the couple wanted so it suited them..

I think in that instance, the mistake was hiring a company in the first place. It stands to reason that the company will be raking it in while the photographer is just an employee who probably gets paid the minimum they think they can get away with. I bet he was really motivated. I bet the company had a BIG ad in the phone book, people not in the know tend to be drawn to the biggest shiniest ads.
01-05-2010, 12:33 AM   #37
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I have such big respect for all you (good, not necessarily pro) wedding photographers. Of course there are other areas of photography that are more difficult, but I can't imagine anything with more pressure. If someone asked me to shoot at their wedding I would probably recommend someone else instead. And that is not just because I don't trust my skills (combined with the poor AF of my K10D). I just couldn't handle the risk of dissapointing the bride in any way.

I would rather have had the assignment that Armstrong had with that Hasselblad to shoot the first pictures from the surface of the moon. And talk about low pressure...

/Tommy
01-05-2010, 12:38 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tommy Quote
Of course there are other areas of photography that are more difficult, but I can't imagine anything with more pressure.
I think a lot of people will disagree with you there, WP's are a breed apart and shouldn't be compared. It's a shame there are so many dickwads (there are probably some who are members of this forum) out there giving the profession a bad name.

01-05-2010, 01:43 AM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
I think in that instance, the mistake was hiring a company in the first place. It stands to reason that the company will be raking it in while the photographer is just an employee who probably gets paid the minimum they think they can get away with. I bet he was really motivated. I bet the company had a BIG ad in the phone book, people not in the know tend to be drawn to the biggest shiniest ads.
Not sure. For my wedding, we hired a photographer through a photostudio as well (the most established in the vicinity, been around for ages). We looked through samples and everything.
Maybe, we did not communicate well enough what we wanted, but the pictures were horrendous. Everything posed, horrible pictures.
A friend of mine with his SLR shot wonderful pictures, sadly not very many MP, so I cannot print them really large. And he shot JPG. Still, his pictures showed the essence.
I actually think that asking a friend to shoot can often be a lot better than a professional photographer. Yes, you do not get the highest quality, but you get someone who shoots with his heart. Of course, my brother in-law shot as well (unasked, he kinda just busted in that he has this oh-so great Canon FF camera and he is so skilled at taking pictures), and the photos were garbage. He even gave me completely misfocused pictures, horrible framing.

It really helps to know who is shooting.
01-05-2010, 02:03 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Diffusion Quote
Not sure. For my wedding, we hired a photographer through a photostudio as well (the most established in the vicinity, been around for ages). We looked through samples and everything.
Maybe, we did not communicate well enough what we wanted, but the pictures were horrendous. Everything posed, horrible pictures.
A friend of mine with his SLR shot wonderful pictures, sadly not very many MP, so I cannot print them really large. And he shot JPG. Still, his pictures showed the essence.
I actually think that asking a friend to shoot can often be a lot better than a professional photographer. Yes, you do not get the highest quality, but you get someone who shoots with his heart. Of course, my brother in-law shot as well (unasked, he kinda just busted in that he has this oh-so great Canon FF camera and he is so skilled at taking pictures), and the photos were garbage. He even gave me completely misfocused pictures, horrible framing.

It really helps to know who is shooting.
That's just bad luck and happens in any industry. But in the case I was talking about, any extra of hierarchy you add to the mix increases the potential for problems. I see that kind of outfit as similar to these portrait studios where everything is fixed in place and they just need a monkey (or student, whichever is brightest) to press the shutter button. It's factory photography, the majority are satisfied because they don't have high expectations and they get some pictures at the end of the day. I can remember years ago my parents going out for a once in a blue moon dinner and cabaret. They'd come home saying the food was terrible but what a good night they'd had. It was simply because they had actually had a night out.

Yes it does help to know who's shooting but unless you get married often, the chances of that are slim. The best you can do is research as much as possible but even then, you need to know at least a little about photography in the first place.
01-05-2010, 08:23 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Diffusion Quote
Not sure. For my wedding, we hired a photographer through a photostudio as well (the most established in the vicinity, been around for ages). We looked through samples and everything.
Maybe, we did not communicate well enough what we wanted, but the pictures were horrendous. Everything posed, horrible pictures.
My impression of the four weddings from this summer was that most of the photos were posed--in fact most of the wedding was posed in all but the wedding which seemed to have been photographed by the least professional pro.

It does help to communicate, because it often seems to me that the photographer is functioning as the event planner.
01-05-2010, 08:58 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
My impression of the four weddings from this summer was that most of the photos were posed--in fact most of the wedding was posed in all but the wedding which seemed to have been photographed by the least professional pro.

It does help to communicate, because it often seems to me that the photographer is functioning as the event planner.
These days getting the posed stuff is very important to most clients but I agree that the unposed stuff is often better. This is why it is important that I have a good assistant because for much of the day their assignment is to grab "everything else". I NEED to get some shots of the first kiss but my assistant can be scanning the parents looking for crying or laughing or whatever might be going on while the kiss is happening.

Here's an example. While I was setting up this shot with a wide angle lens my assistant (using a K20D with a 16-50) got both me setting it up and some nice tight crops that were fun. Its the kind of photojournalistic coverage I like to include with the rest of the set. These pictures don't have to be the kind of technically perfect images that would be appreciated by a group of people on a photography forum because they will always be personal, documentary and appreciated by the clients



01-05-2010, 10:45 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Monkey see monkey do... but that's OK too...
Everyone wants to 'feel' like a pro even if they aren't one...

She's going to borrow my K100D for a bit, see if she likes having an SLR....see if i can convince her to come to the good side of the fence lol
01-05-2010, 11:33 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by kunik Quote
These days getting the posed stuff is very important to most clients but I agree that the unposed stuff is often better. This is why it is important that I have a good assistant because for much of the day their assignment is to grab "everything else". I NEED to get some shots of the first kiss but my assistant can be scanning the parents looking for crying or laughing or whatever might be going on while the kiss is happening.

Here's an example. While I was setting up this shot with a wide angle lens my assistant (using a K20D with a 16-50) got both me setting it up and some nice tight crops that were fun. Its the kind of photojournalistic coverage I like to include with the rest of the set. These pictures don't have to be the kind of technically perfect images that would be appreciated by a group of people on a photography forum because they will always be personal, documentary and appreciated by the clients
Those were very nice shots. They were the kind that I, as the unpaid but invited photographer was getting. That is a great use of an assistant. What I saw of the photographers who had an assistant was the assistant aping the boss, rather than adding something new.

Come to think of it, the photographer that generated more than 2,000 proofs for my niece came without an assistant, though he came in a very nice car.
01-05-2010, 12:39 PM   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gaelen Quote
She's going to borrow my K100D for a bit, see if she likes having an SLR....see if i can convince her to come to the good side of the fence lol
Having never handled an SLR before, she'll no doubt be impressed...
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