[PDL]

I'm going to speculate a little here, PDL. Do remember this is just speculation. Anyway, I suspect what most in government and law enforcement are concerned about are images which could benefit terrorists (images of the building layout, entrances and exits, alternative entrances and exits, security, routes in and out of the area, and so on), not images of the overall building facade.

Ever heard of Google Earth or Microsoft Earhview? You want to know the "escape routes" buy a city map - just look at it. Besides you keep quoting Federal Statutes when this issue is about a local City building, not under Federal Juristiction.

When one person's rights are impinged - all of our rights are impinged.

PDL

[stewart_photo]

Ever heard of Google Earth or Microsoft Earhview? You want to know the "escape routes" buy a city map - just look at it. Besides you keep quoting Federal Statutes when this issue is about a local City building, not under Federal Juristiction.

When one person's rights are impinged - all of our rights are impinged.

Look, PDL, I know some here (perhaps you) are bothered by the fact that I'm not screaming like a madman about how outrageous this all is, but I simply don't see it that way. In my opinion, what happened in Indianapolis is downright trivial. The United States invading another country (Iraq) under blatantly false pretenses, killing hundreds of thousands of people in the process, is outrageous. The United States remaining in that country years after those pretenses are known by all to be false, while still killing people, is outrageous. The United States holding people in prisons thousands of miles from home without family visits or the inalienable benefit of fair trial and legal council for years on end is outrageous. The United States maintaining secret prisons around the world while torturing and killing people in prisons is outrageous. Some guy being denied the ability to photograph some darn building in Indianapolis is not outrageous - and does not infringe on rights anywhere near as much as the things I just described. So I will reserve my outrage for the things that truly matter in this world. The Indianapolis incident is not that, so I don't intend to comment further.

By the way, no offense meant to you, PDL, or any other single individual here. The above was simply an expression of my true outrage.

stewart

[PDL]

I too feel your outrage at what the current regime has done to my country. That said - this is not the first time "the régime" (I pick that work on purpose) has found photographers an easy target.
Search Results | Seattle Times Newspaper
However, in the case in Seattle - the news people saw it for what is was - an egregious affront to all Americans basic freedoms. This is not happening "out there" it is not happening "to them" it is happening to citizens within our borders.

That is an outrage - do I expect anyone to run into the streets and throw rocks - no -- H*ll no. Let's just vote for once and get them back to the ranch where they can do no more harm.

Remember the saying that came out of WWII in Europe, goes something like this.
First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller
First They Came for the Jews

Are we going to let them herd us into "tourist approved"? When are they going to come for us - and who will speak in our defense.

Oh - no offense taken either - the real offenses are the actions carried out in our names.

PDL

[J.Scott]

Ok - we have identified our problems - now what? Is there an International advocacy group that can carry photographers complaints forward? Who can lobby on our behalf? Our collective voice will always outweigh the sum total of our individual voices.

[jfdavis58]

Ok - we have identified our problems - now what? Is there an International advocacy group that can carry photographers complaints forward? Who can lobby on our behalf? Our collective voice will always outweigh the sum total of our individual voices.

So many voices; so little fact or reason.

Many discordant voices has another description: noise.

This discussion is simply a local knock-off, a copy of hundreds of similar that have gone before.

When there is question or doubt about a legal matter, consult an attorney--preferably one who specializes in the specifics of your question and who is currently practicing in the community where the question or doubt centers. Expect to pay a fee for such advice. This ain't the internet!

The internet does provide some 'leads' in such an information quest, gooooogle: "Photographers Rights" , "Bert P. Krages" and "Kantor" as a start. Special emphasis on "as a start".

[Photo Tramp]

John, Is completely right there, is to little information that was first reported, and many other questions that remain unanswered. I also suggest contacting a Lawyer and find out what rights photographers have in each country where we live or visit or plan to visit.

[raz-0]

[SNIP]
Some guy being denied the ability to photograph some darn building in Indianapolis is not outrageous - and does not infringe on rights anywhere near as much as the things I just described. So I will reserve my outrage for the things that truly matter in this world. The Indianapolis incident is not that, so I don't intend to comment further.

By the way, no offense meant to you, PDL, or any other single individual here. The above was simply an expression of my true outrage.

stewart

So you ignore the little evils because there are still greater evils in the world. Everything big always comes from the top down right? Never from starting small and working your way up, of course.

[MRRiley]

So many voices; so little fact or reason.

Many discordant voices has another description: noise.

This discussion is simply a local knock-off, a copy of hundreds of similar that have gone before.

snip

John,

It might well be "noise" but if discussions like this do not occur in public they will never get any attention. Most inequities (either actual or perceived) will not be addressed when only one voice is protesting... However discordinate the voices, a "mob" always gets attention.

Sure, consulte a lawyer if you are involved in a specific situation, but in the meantime I'll add my voice and opinion to the group when I perceive our rights are in danger.

Mike

[J.Scott]

The many voices offering opinions are hopefully a prelude to someone taking action on the issue. I have no problem with debate or discussion - that is a healthy part of our civilized society. We have discussed this - now what? My point was, that a thousand individual voices all saying the same thing will not have the same effect as one united voice.

I have an aversion to making some lawyer rich over this issue. Sure, if me and my camera get tossed in the hoosegow my first call will be to a lawyer to get my butt out, however, that is not what I was talking about.

What I am asking is; is there an existing international advocacy or lobbying group that supports the rights of photographers?

If not - let's start one!

[slip]

could he have been taking photos of children before he was detained?
could he have been of skin color that could have got suspicions aroused by police who are prejudice? for example someone from the middle east?
Not saying that would be a reason to do what they did, but this isn't a perfect world and discrimination is still an ongoing problem, something I do not tollerate myself.

just some food for thought


randy

[MRRiley]

I agree totally Jeff. I for one would rather spend my money on camera and lenses than making any lawyers rich. As you say, the community needs someone to speak in our best interests. Who that might be isthe big question. I don't know if there are any photographer's rights groups. I hadn't really even thought about it until recently. I'll see what I can dig up. Everyone else is free to look too of course. Lets curry comb the brush and see what we can find.. Mike

[Rolly]

When there is question or doubt about a legal matter, consult an attorney--preferably one who specializes in the specifics of your question and who is currently practicing in the community where the question or doubt centers. Expect to pay a fee for such advice. This ain't the internet!

On the assumption, of course, that one is appropriately fiscally endowed.
That's not as common as those of us who are well shielded by our personal avarice would like to believe.

[PDL]

I know of two professional organizations that provide legal assistance.
American Society of Media Photographers
PPA
However, their dues and requirements are beyond the mere "advanced" photographers means.

I am surprised that the local News Papers, photo clubs and other news media did not pick up on this. You can always write the mayor, IMPD chief and your respective congress people too.

PDL

[stewart_photo]

So you ignore the little evils because there are still greater evils in the world. Everything big always comes from the top down right? Never from starting small and working your way up, of course.

No, I simply agree with the old adage, "sweat the big stuff and the little stuff will take care of itself." If Americans are not willing to scream bloody murder over massive government human rights abuses (even murder itself), government has little incentive to hesitate even for a moment when it comes to lessor abuses. America has slid well down that proverbial slippery slope, and talking about some photographer in Indianapolis isn't going to stop that slide, or even slow it down. But, if we're able to stop the big abuses, government will be far more hesitant when it comes to any abuse.

stewart

[George Lama]

The key is to know your legal rights, as a casual photographer, freelance photographer, or photojournalist, and to always check with the city whenever possible. I'm planning on visiting NYC soon and found their website to be full of information on how to obtain free permits for photo shoots and who to contact to shoot at sites not under the jurisdiction of the city. I doubt most cities would have this type of information readily available...

Here are some links:

What every cameraman, photographer and videographer should know about invasion of privacy standards in the 50 states and D.C.

A Downloadable Flyer Explaining Your Rights When Stopped or Confronted for Photography

And here's an excellent article published by USAToday last year, about the rights of photographers:
USATODAY.com - Misinformation about your photography rights continues to spread