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View Poll Results: How would you rate Marc Newson's Design, 5 being the highest?
5 7513.11%
4 19033.22%
3 14325.00%
2 9115.91%
1 7312.76%
Voters: 572. You may not vote on this poll

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02-05-2012, 04:18 AM   #106
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If the EVF wasn't part of the briefing, i.e., if MN designed VF-less camera, then I really don't understand why he imitated the pentaprism. It would be against his own design goals then.

A look at the VF-less APS-C Leica XC1 shows that such a design can look good w/o imitating. The XC1 doesn't exactly have the clean lines of a K-01, but that's not my point.

Speaking about XC1, adding a mount-sized wheel in front leading to a K mount would have been an obvious design possibilty, both improving on the camera's look and ergonomy. Adding a modest grip bulge for the battery and the K-01 would both be lower and look slimmer.

02-05-2012, 04:59 AM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
If the EVF wasn't part of the briefing, i.e., if MN designed VF-less camera, then I really don't understand why he imitated the pentaprism. It would be against his own design goals then.

A look at the VF-less APS-C Leica XC1 shows that such a design can look good w/o imitating.
The "pentaprism" is needed for the flash, and the flash has to be raised much higher as K-01 can use much bigger lenses. This make the flash take up more space and having flash centered on lens is probably the best solution. K-01 also has a much more powerful flash than Leica X1.
02-05-2012, 05:20 AM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fogel70 Quote
The "pentaprism" is needed for the flash, and the flash has to be raised much higher as K-01 can use much bigger lenses. This make the flash take up more space and having flash centered on lens is probably the best solution. K-01 also has a much more powerful flash than Leica X1.
While we're at it, ... a flash raised this much creates ugly shadows. So, an innovative camera could have two flashes popping out XC1-like from doors in the left and right sides using the camera base as offset. For shadow-free flash photography. Where the right side remains optional if you need the grip or shadow.

In any case, I think an XC1 like flash can pop out much higher if needed, just use a scope-like extension tube. Could actually be a feature by making ut pip out less with a lens like the DA40 to minimize shadows.
02-05-2012, 05:22 AM   #109
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-How would you rate the look overall?
I gave this a 4, it stands out but is still business like, I personally prefer the silver with black grip model.

-Does the 40mm fit the camera well?
Its best on the black body but I prefer the regular DA 40. Why not bundle with one of the coloured DA 35s?

-Are you planning on buying one based on what you've read about it in the official announcement?
Maybe if my Kx dies but would probably pick up another Kx on the used market (has view finder).

-In buying a camera, how important is the look compared to the features? Very important, somewhat important, or unimportant?
Somewhat important to me, but very important to new buyers not familiar with Pentax's traditional strengths. I do think they missed not having a view finder available aswell as no WR which would further differ this camera from its rivals.
So MAYBE if this one does well, WR all black with Pentax green accents with viewfinder articulated screen and re-worked FA31!

How do you think people who've never heard of Pentax would react to this camera?
50/50, it looks like no other Mirrorless and retro is covered by Oly and Fuji anyway. If they are on demo then it will do well compared to small Mirrorless models like G3 and Nex as they will be easier to hold with the kit lens attached.
Behind a cabinet door however the smaller cameras win. I actually think the yellow model is a brilliant move to get a customer to ask "Whats that?" they will probably buy another colour but it will be a real attention grabber even if a consultant is not actively pushing Pentax.


Last edited by Tonto; 02-05-2012 at 05:39 AM.
02-05-2012, 10:39 AM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
I gave it a 3, because in the colors it's actually available it's a toy-like 1....in this as yet non-existent color scheme, it could've easily been a 5:
Well, nice job mocking up an all-black one.

If this were for my market slice, that all-black would be the thing, though I do like the other schemes. (There was a white-and-black one on Dpreview, and that actually looks like how they might have designed the camera, that looks pretty cool.) I don't actually think the two-tone ones look 'toy-like:' actually I think they look attractive, though that yellow's a perplexing color choice to me, especially for a non-weathersealed camera. (Makes me think 'beach,' that, or whatever, I also think it'd work better for the yellow scheme to dispense with the chrome, too. That might be a bit much, but maybe some are looking for that.)

But, overall for design, I might consider it a 3 or 4 depending on how it actually *feels.* And operates. I actually like the look of it, (even the 'chimney' some don't like, ) but it may be that the controls are oversimplified for the sake of design: for a camera of those specs I think I'd want the two dials and perhaps some function to a stopdown lever. But that may just not be what they're aiming at for a market, anyway. Seems the notion is to put DSLR quality in something mirrorless. I figure that we might see a more serious-oriented version with a viewfinder and a full suite of controls if the whole line ends up going there.

I think it *looks* pretty holdable, though if they want people to hold a camera like that out at LCD distance, there really ought to be some kind of thumbrest or grippy stuff on the back.

I still like the somewhat retro lettering: they should start using that on everything.

40mm XS? Well, for the money, it fits. Deisgnwise, I wonder what one's supposed to do about a *hood.* I just can't see myself waving eight hundred dollars worth of camera without a hood of some kind on there, and it doesn't look like there's a very elegant solution there. Anyone seen a 27-49mm step ring lately?

Would I buy? Quite unlikely: a viewfinder's just pretty essential for me, since I get pretty day-blind. It seems it wouldn't be hard to put a really nice EVF in there somewhere if the line's expanded. I presume if they come to make one more targeted to be an SLR replacement, they can add the controls, make it basic black,. maybe even just use a chassis like the K-5: I think it'd be pretty logical to replace the prism housing with a nice big, tiltable EVF.


Appearance isn't so much a priority for me as feel and handling: usually things that feel good will look good, though I'm of the opinion that it may as well look good, too, though there's no accounting for taste in some ways, of course. If you're doing professional work, I do think it can help to have things look businesslike, as well. How people respond to you as a photographer really does affect your photos, though that's more about how you handle yourself than the equipment, the equipment looking serious can help.

As for how non-photogs would actually respond to this design, that may well be up in the air: I think it may actually be more promising than some think. I think these are handsome cameras for the market segment. They do remind me of the way the old Super Program looked, somehow, with the black-and-chrome scheme, and I always thought those were pretty handsome.
02-05-2012, 10:45 AM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
I missed a word in there.. but that was my point, it was Pentax telling him what he was designing, what the camera did/did not have. The lack of VF and WR sealing is not MN's choice either way.. so as far as the styling goes the camera is visually good IMO.. but I think I would have preferred a shutter "trigger" as to where the shutter button is.. considering the size and ergonomics of the camera
Hey Chex: Some posters pan Mark Newson for designing a peice of furniture with a sensor inside. Others pan Pentax for the design instruction (there's a better word for that) and not giving him better instructions. They're all just ways of saying, "This camera isn't what I wanted."

Maybe that's what Pentax wanted to do. Maybe thier trapped by the "loyal Pentaxians" and Ricoh wants to find a way out.
02-05-2012, 12:27 PM - 1 Like   #112
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-How would you rate the look overall?

Very boxy and toyish looking. Not pleasing to the eye and quite hard to take seriously.

-Does the 40mm fit the camera well?

No, it looks a bit too plastic. Besides a pancake lens on such a thick looking camera looks very strange.

-Are you planning on buying one based on what you've read about it in the official announcement?

No, the allure of the K mount mirrorless is very interesting, but this final product is very much a letdown.

-In buying a camera, how important is the look compared to the features? Very important, somewhat important, or unimportant?

If I were buying a $300-400 camera, i could overlook it's appearance over it's specs and function. Once you get in the "fairly large chunk of cash" category, the look of the camera becomes quite important. I won't spend money on something that doesn't look good to me, in those price ranges and above, "the whole package" has to be present.

-How do you think people who've never heard of Pentax would react to this camera?

I honestly do not think they will take it seriously.

Pat
02-05-2012, 11:58 PM   #113
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My first thought on day 1 was that I think this is one ugly camera. But the more (real) photos I see of it, the more I want it. Not that it matters what the camera looks like... Actually holding one will ultimately help me make my decision but so far I think this is the first Pentax camera that gives me that "I WANT TO NEED THIS" feeling where I start to look for excuses why my K200 doesn't cut it anymore.

It might be a great sign that so many people are worked up about the K-01 for many reasons. That's much better than having a community that doesn't care.

-How would you rate the look overall?
different. not for people who are worried about "looking professional" (whatever that means)

-Does the 40mm fit the camera well?
It's a good addition if you don't have the original DA 40mm 2.8 already

-Are you planning on buying one based on what you've read about it in the official announcement?
I'll have to check one out in person (I still think that the materials & feel will make or break the design).

-In buying a camera, how important is the look compared to the features? Very important, somewhat important, or unimportant?
feel is more important than look and features combined! If it doesn't feel right, you won't pick it up to take pictures.

-How do you think people who've never heard of Pentax would react to this camera?
People who have never heard of Pentax are probably not really into photography so I don't think they will care

02-06-2012, 04:14 PM   #114
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This thread is mainly about personal taste and that's fine.

I believe, however, that good design goes beyond personal taste and that the K-01 fails to meet established principles of good design.
02-06-2012, 08:38 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
-How would you rate the look overall?
-Does the 40mm fit the camera well?
-Are you planning on buying one based on what you've read about it in the official announcement?
-In buying a camera, how important is the look compared to the features? Very important, somewhat important, or unimportant?
-How do you think people who've never heard of Pentax would react to this camera?
Overall: a bit clumsy from a distance, but the details are clean and smooth, and in black/silver it approaches passable. Looks very heavy.
The 40: such a small lens on a visually large and dense body is a bit incongruous for me. 40 is also a bit long for a walkaround, I would have loved to see a 28mm 2.8. Even the 35/2.4 seems more useful.
Buying one?: No. No EVF, no accessory EVF, not appreciably smaller than my K200D.
The 'look' as a decision point: Unimportant. I'm more interested in the size and function than the look.
Non-Pentaxians: I don't think they'll consider it. M4/3 has a more compelling form factor and better market penetration. The recent Fuji models hit the enthusiast market. This is just... Odd.
02-08-2012, 01:01 PM   #116
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Hey Chex: Some posters pan Mark Newson for designing a peice of furniture with a sensor inside. Others pan Pentax for the design instruction (there's a better word for that) and not giving him better instructions. They're all just ways of saying, "This camera isn't what I wanted."

Maybe that's what Pentax wanted to do. Maybe thier trapped by the "loyal Pentaxians" and Ricoh wants to find a way out.
I agree, this could be Ricoh's way of trying to break the Pentax way of thinking.. but what was wrong with well ergonomically laid out buttons and wheels.. that I don't understand the drastic change.
It will be more interesting to see what comes down the pipe as actual K-r and K-5 replacements, FF options etc.. the K-01 is a nice start overall, but to me this is a "Non-ergonomic mirrorless K-r like feature set with a K-5 sensor, and upgraded processor, great for the price point, but the removal of any VF or optional VF attachment at launch is a bit of a hit in this market IMO.
02-08-2012, 01:37 PM   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
I agree, this could be Ricoh's way of trying to break the Pentax way of thinking.. but what was wrong with well ergonomically laid out buttons and wheels.. that I don't understand the drastic change.
Nothing. K-01 layout is close to K-r and I bet I'll like it. I'm a K-01 guines pig.
QuoteOriginally posted by Chex Quote
It will be more interesting to see what comes down the pipe as actual K-r and K-5 replacements, FF options etc.. the K-01 is a nice start overall, but to me this is a "Non-ergonomic mirrorless K-r like feature set with a K-5 sensor, and upgraded processor, great for the price point, but the removal of any VF or optional VF attachment at launch is a bit of a hit in this market IMO.
Look at the lenses. Nice Q lenses & adapter, mid-grade DA (or better) incl the low-price 50, 645. They're expanding the market. I bet we'll get a K-r body EVF with K-5 guts shortly and the K-5 replacement will prob. have a new sensor. That doesn't even didcuss video.

The tsunami then Thailand messed up everybody's product schedules and may have pushed Hoya to finally sell Pentax.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-08-2012 at 02:12 PM.
02-09-2012, 01:44 AM   #118
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-How would you rate the look overall?

I rated it 3. Not appealing, but not odious either.

-Does the 40mm fit the camera well?

It makes it look big. It is the opposite of the NEX body, which makes its lenses look big. Not a harmonious combination in each instance. And not an appealing focal length on APS-C either.

-Are you planning on buying one based on what you've read about it in the official announcement?

No. Lack of EVF and pricing would be an issue even if I wanted another K mount camera.

-In buying a camera, how important is the look compared to the features? Very important, somewhat important, or unimportant?

Unimportant. Functionality/Usability > Performance > Style.

-How do you think people who've never heard of Pentax would react to this camera?

My speculation would be initial curiosity followed by indifference. Assuming they have a chance to react given their lack of exposure to Pentax.
02-09-2012, 11:51 AM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
-How would you rate the look overall?
80%, I do not like the "chimney" under mode dial. But maybe it was put there due to a technical constraint.
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
-Does the 40mm fit the camera well?
I think my M20/4 would fit it better.
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
-Are you planning on buying one based on what you've read about it in the official announcement?
I bought a K-5 14months ago, I do not buy cameras that often. But I may consider buying it's successor.
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
-In buying a camera, how important is the look compared to the features? Very important, somewhat important, or unimportant?
Probably unimportant. I never saw a camera too ugly to avoid it if it would fit my budget and needs.
QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
-How do you think people who've never heard of Pentax would react to this camera?
Probably positively. It looks very friendly, Something people won't be afraid to use. A natural step-up from compact cameras.
02-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #120
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1 for me... I'm glad design is not what matters in a camera
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