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02-02-2012, 06:34 PM   #106
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
since you have to hold it at arms-length. Double-failure
Why do you have to hold it at an arms length?
When I use live view on my K-5 its not even 20cms away from my face (yes i measured it and its 19.5cms to be exact )


Last edited by TOUGEFC; 02-02-2012 at 06:44 PM.
02-02-2012, 06:36 PM   #107
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Nah... the K-5 is at $ 1000 now.

Besides, that's not the point, people who want a K-5 can just buy a K-5. The point is that they released a camera that, performance-wise, is just as good as the K-5, but is crippled since it just takes away features (VF, WR) without adding anything back.

How good is a body $ 300 cheaper if you can't even use it? Not to mention that it featuring a K-mout is close to useless. Using it with anything other than AF primes will be an lesson in bad ergonomics, since you have to hold it at arms-length. Double-failure.
You could just add the mandatory optional accessory to it and be done with it.....



Because its a Vampire Camera - can't take direct sunlight.
02-02-2012, 06:41 PM   #108
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Nah... the K-5 is at $ 1000 now.

Besides, that's not the point, people who want a K-5 can just buy a K-5. The point is that they released a camera that, performance-wise, is just as good as the K-5, but is crippled since it just takes away features (VF, WR) without adding anything back.

How good is a body $ 300 cheaper if you can't even use it? Not to mention that it featuring a K-mout is close to useless. Using it with anything other than AF primes will be an lesson in bad ergonomics, since you have to hold it at arms-length. Double-failure.
I would anticipate the price to fall to around $550-600 after a couple of months (at least i hope so)

I love that it has the k-mount. For me, it makes a great backup or travel camera, as I dont have to purchase new lenses. For new customers, its a great purchase because you can easily upgrade the camera to a semi-pro k-5 (and hopefully an even higher spec camera to be announced soon) while keeping all your lenses. My wife will like it because she's anyway used to a P&S, this way she'll get much better pics in small, light package.

As for not being able to use anything but primes, first of all, the primes I have produce gorgeous pictures. If i the k-01 gives me anything like what i'm seeing from my k7 with primes, i'll be quite happy. Pentax does make some very light zooms that should fit this camera nicely. But youre right, mounting a DA* 50-135mm 2.8 on this would be quite silly. I doubt this camera is targeted to people who shoot with that lens all the time.

For pentax, this should hopefully bring in people to the pentax world, and get them hooked on the amazing pentax glass thats out there. I would not be surprised if this sold well to people upgrading from a P&S, and I think thats the target market for this camera. I hope it does very well.

I cant/wont judge the ergonomics of the camera until i've held one. I've seen lots of things that look clumsy be quite intuitive to use and things that look great be an absolute pain to use.

I really like this camera. I'm excited to see some reviews and would love to get my hands on one. I'm even considering pre-ordering it.
02-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #109
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I too have always wondered about people holding camera's at arms length... seems like that would make things much harder than need be. I'm not trying to pick on you hcarvalhoalves... I respect your opinion that you don't like the new camera. I just keep thinking though that I have used a number of different digital point & shoots over the years and don't really ever remember thinking that I was having trouble taking photos because of the lighting. I'm not saying it doesn't happen to someone, but it hasn't been an overwhelming issue for me.

02-02-2012, 06:47 PM   #110
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QuoteOriginally posted by trublubiker Quote
I have to ask the designers what were they thinking when they conceived the biggest and heaviest mirrorless SL camera on the market, and decided it could do without either an OVF or an EVF.
The problem is that Pentax hasn't been thinking since September, 2010 (K-5). I'm afraid the latest releases (Q, K-01) are the crap Hoya had envisioned for the brand and was struggling to get out in the market. That's why the 2011 was complete silence regarding new products and roadmaps.

Hopefully Ricoh will put Pentax back to its feet. They were doing well with the K-x and K-5, but are now back to square zero on brand recognition. The K-01 will be the joke of the industry for the rest of the year.
02-02-2012, 06:49 PM   #111
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
You could just add the mandatory optional accessory to it and be done with it.....
Because its a Vampire Camera - can't take direct sunlight.
The camera is already pretty strange. That's adding insult to injury
02-02-2012, 06:53 PM   #112
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
The camera is already pretty strange. That's adding insult to injury
Hey, it would solve many of the objections I have read here.
02-02-2012, 07:07 PM   #113
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
Hey, it would solve many of the objections I have read here.
The fact one has to add a 3rd party accessory to make the camera usable speaks on itself about the failure of it's design, I'm afraid.

PS: My formal training is in product design.

02-02-2012, 07:12 PM   #114
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
The fact one has to add a 3rd party accessory to make the camera usable speaks on itself about the failure of it's design, I'm afraid.

PS: My formal training is in product design.
P.S. My formal training is in logic, psych, and calling in air strikes.
02-02-2012, 07:14 PM   #115
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Nah... the K-5 is at $ 1000 now.

Besides, that's not the point, people who want a K-5 can just buy a K-5. The point is that they released a camera that, performance-wise, is just as good as the K-5, but is crippled since it just takes away features (VF, WR) without adding anything back.

How good is a body $ 300 cheaper if you can't even use it? Not to mention that it featuring a K-mout is close to useless. Using it with anything other than AF primes will be an lesson in bad ergonomics, since you have to hold it at arms-length. Double-failure.
The K-01 is not an SLR substitute. End of story. It is not really a replacement even for the kr, but it could be the replacement for someone who wants to move from a point and shoot to something with more quality.

To me, mirrorless are only good when using primes/light weight lenses. Put anything good sized on them and they do become unwieldy. However, that plays to Pentax's strengths, since they have a whole line up of small auto focus lenses that will play well on this type of camera. Sure, this camera isn't for forum-ites, but to call it a double-failure is a little extreme.
02-02-2012, 07:29 PM   #116
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One thign i cant figure out is why do some camera manufacturers price their technically inferior or lite versions of their cameras more than their superior dslrs? The Fuji x100 is almost as expensive as the s5 pro. Most of panasonic 's g dslrs are priced higher than some of the superior dslrs. The recently launched nikon 1 cameras are more expensive than some of their dslrs and Pentax coming out with the highly overpriced Q and now this.

Are camera manufacturers trying to exploit ignorance of some amateur photographers or are they so confident that their are 1000s of suckers out there who will blindly buy their cameras no matter how bad it is
02-02-2012, 08:01 PM - 1 Like   #117
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Jeez, I would be dancing right now too. The problem is that they've put all this performance in a crippled body without a VF. How good are features if you can't even use the camera.
Should I return mine then? I'll think about your words when I'm in the field when I'm using the camera. I'll think about them again when I am submitting my story and photos for submission, and when I get my copies of the printed magazine.

Sheesh, this is why being a professional reviewer is so difficult; people draw their own conclusions from photos. If you are a product designer you should know better; a camera needs to be held in your hands and used to...you know...take photos before such broad statements as yours should be made.

This whole conversation about this out-of-the-box K-01 has crystalized for me the difference between camera owners and photographers...

Photographers pick up a camera and think, "What pictures can I take with this camera?"
Camera owners pick up a camera and think, "What pictures can't I take with this camera?"
02-02-2012, 09:21 PM - 1 Like   #118
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Choosing a date can be extremely dramatic

.


One of the best summaries yet, IMO, from the announcement page at dpreview::


QuoteQuote:
Disclosure: I’m a long-time professional photographer and miser.

Seems to me, the gear heads have forgotten about photography.

I haven’t owned a Pentax since the ME Super. I recently discovered that the K5 has a world-class, best-in-class sensor (as well as weather sealing, and a metal body).

For around $1,000.

So, lately, I’ve been thinking about switching to Pentax. Of course, I questioned if my peers, associates, and clients would take Pentax seriously.

But they don’t really care about the box. They care about the photos.

Now, we have this new box. Same sensor, with some positive and some negative attributes. And, it’s butt ugly.

For $750.

Really.

$750.

And it uses legacy glass. Glass is more than half the IQ battle, and there’s lots of good Pentax glass out there.

And people complain.

I’ll be buying one of these (and maybe the k5, too), and heading down to the local pawn shop to look for lenses.

If you want to look cool, buy a Leica.



Personally I think the K-01 is far from perfect, but it's even farther from the ultimate fail some folks seem to be labeling it as.

And regarding the looks... It's not here to take you to the prom, girls.

.
.

Last edited by jsherman999; 02-02-2012 at 10:46 PM.
02-02-2012, 10:01 PM   #119
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Photographers pick up a camera and think, "What pictures can I take with this camera?"
Camera owners pick up a camera and think, "What pictures can't I take with this camera?"
There you go... the "real photographer" argument.

People can take great pictures with a Kodak Brownie too. That doesn't mean most people will find it enjoyable.

Same goes for a $ 800 camera without a VF. You can take great pictures with it, I'm sure. That doesn't mean most people will stop looking the best value for money on a camera that enables them to do more instead of less.

One of the things a camera should allow one to do is see what you shoot under sunlight. Is that asking too much of a camera?

Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 02-02-2012 at 10:07 PM.
02-02-2012, 10:05 PM   #120
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I personally don't like the design of the k-01 as it is too boxy and the button layouts/changes are too radical (looks more like beginners camera). The fact that it supports legacy k mount is good but this feature alone would not be enough to attract the non-Pentax crowd. Hopefully we will see a more refined design in the next generation of k-01.
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