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02-02-2012, 10:14 PM   #121
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QuoteOriginally posted by TOUGEFC Quote
Why do you have to hold it at an arms length?
When I use live view on my K-5 its not even 20cms away from my face (yes i measured it and its 19.5cms to be exact )
Maybe someone can fabricate a rifle butt attachment to get back that stability

Currently, a hood-loupe does pretty well for LCD screens. Gives it back that stability and its magnified as well as shaded from the sun.

02-02-2012, 10:16 PM   #122
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Jeez, I would be dancing right now too. The problem is that they've put all this performance in a crippled body without a VF. How good are features if you can't even use the camera.
I have a DigiCam I can hold in my right hand and flip the articulated LCD out to shoot. Yes, it has an EVF, but I never use it.

What the K-01 needs is a strap hand grip. I can actually feel myself holding it with my elbows bent and my left palm underneath the body (and/or lens depending on what's mounted) using the back LCD quite comfortably.

[EDIT: I just tried this with an MESuper and a body cap mounted. It actually is quite comfortable and steady. We just have to learn a new stance and arm position. This will work - I can fell it!]

Hallelujah! No more iPhone thumbs and forefingers and squirming to tap the touch screen to focus and shoot.

Last edited by monochrome; 02-02-2012 at 10:22 PM.
02-02-2012, 10:17 PM - 1 Like   #123
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
And regarding the looks... It's not here to take you to the prom, girls.
Thanks Jay, you just made my day!
02-02-2012, 10:48 PM   #124
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
[EDIT: I just tried this with an MESuper and a body cap mounted. It actually is quite comfortable and steady. We just have to learn a new stance and arm position. This will work - I can fell it!]
Denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

02-02-2012, 10:52 PM - 4 Likes   #125
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
There you go... the "real photographer" argument.

People can take great pictures with a Kodak Brownie too. That doesn't mean most people will find it enjoyable.

Same goes for a $ 800 camera without a VF. You can take great pictures with it, I'm sure. That doesn't mean most people will stop looking the best value for money on a camera that enables them to do more instead of less.

One of the things a camera should allow one to do is see what you shoot under sunlight. Is that asking too much of a camera?
Try handing your dSLR to a 20 or 30 something and ask them to take your picture. 9 times out of 10 they will hold it at arms length and wonder why they can't see an image on the rear LCD. Even a 30 or 40 something will hesitate before remembering the old way of taking pictures. Poor fools, they don't know that the cameras and phones that they use regularly are useless.

As someone trained in product design, I would expect you to understand that every design decision is a compromise. Sure the LCD will wash out in some conditions, but the majority of times people seem to be getting along just fine, judging by the literally millions of photos taken each day without a viewfinder.

Let's not also forget that Pentax must rationalize their product line, and a $750 dollar product that does everything the $1200 product does iwill surely lead to product cannibalization.

And I stand by my claims of "real photography". You know those poor fools I talked about earlier? You know, the ignorant masses taking pictures of their families and friends with their useless phones and cameras held in front of their face? Those folks, by my definition, are real photographers, documenting their lives and the age they live in, raw and real and without bias or pretense of what is right or wrong. Those folks are the embodiment of everything that Eastman and Kodak and Land and others tried to do, create a democratic art form that all can enjoy. This pixel-peeping, spec-sheeting, test-shooting spectacle is little more than a side show to the real challenge of making photographs that actually say something.
02-02-2012, 11:12 PM   #126
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Try handing your dSLR to a 20 or 30 something and ask them to take your picture. 9 times out of 10 they will hold it at arms length and wonder why they can't see an image on the rear LCD. Even a 30 or 40 something will hesitate before remembering the old way of taking pictures. Poor fools, they don't know that the cameras and phones that they use regularly are useless.

As someone trained in product design, I would expect you to understand that every design decision is a compromise. Sure the LCD will wash out in some conditions, but the majority of times people seem to be getting along just fine, judging by the literally millions of photos taken each day without a viewfinder.

Let's not also forget that Pentax must rationalize their product line, and a $750 dollar product that does everything the $1200 product does iwill surely lead to product cannibalization.

And I stand by my claims of "real photography". You know those poor fools I talked about earlier? You know, the ignorant masses taking pictures of their families and friends with their useless phones and cameras held in front of their face? Those folks, by my definition, are real photographers, documenting their lives and the age they live in, raw and real and without bias or pretense of what is right or wrong. Those folks are the embodiment of everything that Eastman and Kodak and Land and others tried to do, create a democratic art form that all can enjoy. This pixel-peeping, spec-sheeting, test-shooting spectacle is little more than a side show to the real challenge of making photographs that actually say something.
'Applause'
well said

There is often this very narrow minded approach that ppl here take on.
"It must be like this for me or its not going to work"
All they need to do is pick up that said hated camera or look around them and see that doing/using it in another way can do too.
02-02-2012, 11:17 PM   #127
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
As someone trained in product design, I would expect you to understand that every design decision is a compromise. Sure the LCD will wash out in some conditions, but the majority of times people seem to be getting along just fine, judging by the literally millions of photos taken each day without a viewfinder.
You want to talk about compromise.

What's the point of this compromise then: a $ 800 for a camera that doesn't enable you to do more than a good P&S? K-mount lenses, more megapickles... Sure, but how does it even matter for the mass market you are declaring this camera should appeal to, the people who hold cameras at arms-length?

See, your argument works both ways. You're saying this is a mass-market camera, but that's wishful thinking. It only matters for people who already own K-mount glass and are ok to cope without a VF. A niche inside a niche. Everyone else could care less for a camera signed by a famous designer that just does what every other camera does.

(To it's merit, and ironically, this camera seems to excel at something completely unexpected: video)

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
And I stand by my claims of "real photography". You know those poor fools I talked about earlier? You know, the ignorant masses taking pictures of their families and friends with their useless phones and cameras held in front of their face? Those folks, by my definition, are real photographers, documenting their lives and the age they live in, raw and real and without bias or pretense of what is right or wrong. Those folks are the embodiment of everything that Eastman and Kodak and Land and others tried to do, create a democratic art form that all can enjoy. This pixel-peeping, spec-sheeting, test-shooting spectacle is little more than a side show to the real challenge of making photographs that actually say something.
Again, how a $ 800 crippled camera signed by a famous designer compares to the popularization of photography Kodak et all achieved? If there's such a democractic Pentax camera, it's the K-1000 or the K-x, which delivered the best value for the money and allowed people to have better tools at their disposal that did more, not less.
02-02-2012, 11:26 PM   #128
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
JFC. I'm tired of this.

02-02-2012, 11:29 PM   #129
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I asked my wife for her opinion as a non-photog. She really liked it and said that she had no negative feelings about it. I think that this will go towards John Flores point of the non traditional buyer..
02-02-2012, 11:50 PM   #130
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I spent a long time looking at mirrorless before giving up on it .. the missing link to me was something that has a good viewfinder, excellent IQ, good lens selection (incl legacy), is small and stylish. Basically I just wanted all the benefits of a good 70s/80s SLR but digital.

All of the players in the market fall short in one or more of these areas, and so unfortunately does the K-01. No viewfinder, ba-bong, may as well just get a high end point and shoot- exactly the same flaw as the Olympus PENs. I don't mind the styling of the K-01 but the size ain't great either. Some of the Panasonic MFT cameras have good viewfinders but crappy faux-DSLR styling. Some of the Sonys have EVF and are small and I suppose stylish to a certain aesthetic, but lens availability is lacking.

How many more fatally flawed models will there from how many manufacturers before someone actually lives up to the full potential of mirrorless?
02-03-2012, 12:48 AM   #131
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QuoteOriginally posted by russell2pi Quote
I spent a long time looking at mirrorless before giving up on it .. the missing link to me was something that has a good viewfinder, excellent IQ, good lens selection (incl legacy), is small and stylish. Basically I just wanted all the benefits of a good 70s/80s SLR but digital.
I second that.

Fuji already did this for the rangefinder (and Ricoh was late to the party with their M-mount module). First SLR manufacturer to wake up and get this into the market before everybody else wins. Pentax is so well positioned for this:

- they commited to the K-mount
- they have a huge legacy of lenses that work great with EVF + manual focus
- they have WR which, without a mirror, makes for an absolutely sturdy adventure camera (!)
- they know how to make ergonomic bodies and compact lenses (!!)
- they have in-body SR (!!!)

...and still they are clueless, releasing weird cameras. It's so stupid it's unbeliveable, really.
02-03-2012, 01:36 AM   #132
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
If there's such a democractic Pentax camera, it's the K-1000 or the K-x, which delivered the best value for the money and allowed people to have better tools at their disposal that did more, not less.
You're probably talking about K-x film camera, right? I think also with digital K-x, Pentax presented camera which was best value for money. And again it seems to me it is most widely know of any Pentax dSLR, so it did make some impact. K10d is also quite known camera among people I met and K-5 to some extent too.
02-03-2012, 01:38 AM   #133
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Hmmm... Perhaps they realize that this world is a weird place, full of very weird people, who might just buy weird stuff?
02-03-2012, 01:38 AM   #134
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QuoteOriginally posted by russell2pi Quote
No viewfinder, ba-bong, may as well just get a high end point and shoot- exactly the same flaw as the Olympus PENs.
...and yet Olympus PENs lead the selling statistics in JAPAN......despite of being flawed.
02-03-2012, 01:47 AM   #135
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QuoteOriginally posted by vrrattko Quote
...and yet Olympus PENs lead the selling statistics in JAPAN......despite of being flawed.
yeah, fashion. They do look great.
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