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02-16-2012, 09:02 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I only criticize that they call what most likely was a tone curve test a comparison of dynamic range of cameras.
Beyond that, they also seemed to test the metering of the cameras or, if the exposure settings were manual, the camera operator choices.

I was mystified by the chart that showed how much "headroom" each camera has in the darks vs the highlights. The chart mainly illustrated that the cameras either metered rather differently or were operated with rather different settings.

It appears, some cameras could have looked better in the highlights test without losing too much ground in the darks test.

02-17-2012, 01:51 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I don't take issue with the test, only that they call it a DR test.

If I follow your line of argument, every firmware release or minor product update could reshuffle the table. No deeper understanding about the technical capabilities could be reached.

This is because the Zacuto test tested software abilities more than hardware abilities.

This is also why a true test of sensor DR in video mode is my primary concern. And Zacuto failed to do one. Moreover, with a kind of deeper bitdepth in video (kind of raw video), the in-camera tone curves become irrelevant and hardware abilities are what matters then.

OK, it's pretty clear now: you're interested in a thing that actual video shooters usually don't care about ("sensor DR in video mode")

all I care about is the camera's actual DR in video mode - that which is actually saved in the footage and not crushed by the camera's software
because yes, some cameras shoot RAW, but others don't, and in those it's the software which is crushing all that DR - but as long as I can't install my own software in the camera, that's what I have to work with

for example, the D7000 shows 13.9 stops of DR in dxomark (in stills), but only 10.2 stops in the Zacuto shootout - some of that must be due to the fact that in video mode only some lines in the sensor are read, and there's a nasty resampling afterwards, but I'd expect that at least 3 of those stops are lost because the silly Nikon software crushes that much info in the shadows, no matter how you play with the camera settings (i.e.: there's no way to record video with that camera using a tone curve that doesn't crush at least 3 stops of DR, and if there is it must have such huge drawbacks that they didn't even consider it as an option)

I aggree that it is silly, that Nikon could probably release a firmware update and easily increase the DR in video mode by a couple of stops - but they haven't - and the camera, as it lives in real life, can only record 10.2 stops of DR in video mode, no matter what the sensor is capturing

from what I see, you don't like the Zacuto shootout because it's not well documented (relatively fair point), and because it investigates the issues that people actually shooting with the cameras worry about, and not what you'd be interested in - forgive me for not caring about that theoretical concept, I'll now unsubscribe from this thread... (edit: well, I actually didn't, I'm too often guilty of this: http://xkcd.com/386/)

Last edited by Samuel H; 02-17-2012 at 03:34 AM.
02-17-2012, 02:25 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samuel H Quote
I aggree that it is silly, that Nikon could probably release a firmware update and easily increase the DR in video mode by a couple of stops - but they haven't -
If I may bring the discussion back to topic then ...

This Zacuto test page originally was cited here as a reference to K-01's DR in video mode, observing that it shares the same sensor with the D7000.

Everybody now agrees with me that this reference has no point in this context.

Still, people cannot stop argueing with me

But as you said, it's pretty clear now.
02-17-2012, 03:33 AM   #184
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
This Zacuto test page originally was cited here as a reference to K-01's DR in video mode, observing that it shares the same sensor with the D7000.

Everybody now agrees with me that this reference has no point in this context.
fair enough
I don't think I claimed the K-01 would have the same DR in video mode as the D7000: that will depend on the settings available in the camera, and Pentax seems to have much better in-camera controls than Nikon (still not as powerful as Canon's, but the better sensor could make up for that)
in fact, I'm in this forum for the sole reason that I have hopes that the K-01 might record a lot higher DR in video mode than previous DSLRs

I just wanted to defend the Zacuto shootout: I think it was a great test, and I trust its results

02-17-2012, 10:22 AM   #185
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Back to the original point of the thread, I think the answer is that the K-01 won't become the next cult video DSLR in the same sense that the GH2 is, unless of course the K-01 is hacked. What I do think it represents is a cheap yet effective tool for people (especially Pentax users) to do web/tv quality HD video with a boat load of nice K-mount and M42 lenses available. It also brings some long needed improvements to Pentax camera video that will be incorporated into later models. (Maybe the best thing about it)

To this point, it's the first Pentax camera I've considered buying primarily as a way to upgrade my video setup. I'm not going to be making feature films with this thing, likely just decent quality videos for a news website. And for that it looks like it could be a pretty good tool at the right price. The codec for smaller video files probably even benefits a use like mine more than the huge video files that it could produce that would maintain more quality for filmmakers like Samuel who can use that extra headroom in post.

So I hope it does get hacked so we can see its full potential, but I'm not sure if I'll even bother with applying that change if it happens.
02-17-2012, 11:37 AM   #186
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Gosh, looking forward to an actual shipping model to get reviewed- it's been almost two weeks now, and for a model that's supposed to ship in March, there hasn't been any real noise since the initial announcement(s). If they pipe out uncompressed HDMI with no overlays, we've got a winner!

Wondering if shipping versions will be more like April, with hands-on reviews happening in March?

I agree with Urkeldaedalus- this isn't designed to be a professional tool. What it could be, though, with one firmware adjustment is a bridge device for videography (if it could output uncompressed HDMI) that could fuel further projects by independent film-makers. Let video storage be as it is- it will hit the target market perfectly- but add on one feature and watch sales go to a different level as the camera falls outside of it's target market into a niche market! In-body SR didn't profit the company (they didn't capitalize on selling stabilized lenses like other camera system manufacturers). Pentax has an opportunity to gather a new group of users. SR was the main reason I bought a Pentax when getting back into photography- because it showed the company was thinking about it's users!
02-29-2012, 05:19 PM   #187
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Not sure if it's answered or not but does the K-01 has focus peaking during video?
02-29-2012, 10:14 PM   #188
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first video sample, not enough to know what its capable of yet

they obviously forgot to use the sensor shift feature. im personally waiting anxiously to see what this thing can really do, ive been using a gh2 for video for a few months now and its amazing for that, but i am constantly let down by it concerning photography. in my dream world the k-01 would at least downsample cleanly giving IQ on par with the gh2 and then be hacked. then i could jump ship from m43.




03-01-2012, 07:42 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by namtot Quote
first video sample, not enough to know what its capable of yet

they obviously forgot to use the sensor shift feature. im personally waiting anxiously to see what this thing can really do, ive been using a gh2 for video for a few months now and its amazing for that, but i am constantly let down by it concerning photography. in my dream world the k-01 would at least downsample cleanly giving IQ on par with the gh2 and then be hacked. then i could jump ship from m43.

That video bit rate is the same as the GH2 in the new 1080p30 mode of 24mbit/sec with the latest firmware. I will keep my GH2 & GH1 with four m4/3rd lenses since I like them for video use in low light with the 25mm F0.95. The K-01 will work great with my 10-24mm Tamron with SR handheld @10mm.
03-01-2012, 12:31 PM   #190
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it seems to be straight from the camera:
29.970 fps
H.264 AVC High 4.0
4:2:0 8-bit
21.9 Mbps for the video, 1 Mbps for the audio (PCM stereo)

the image itself is not bad, but it's not a very useful test
there's some wobble with vibrations, so rolling shutter may be an issue
03-01-2012, 12:55 PM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samuel H Quote
it seems to be straight from the camera:
29.970 fps
H.264 AVC High 4.0
4:2:0 8-bit
21.9 Mbps for the video, 1 Mbps for the audio (PCM stereo)

the image itself is not bad, but it's not a very useful test
there's some wobble with vibrations, so rolling shutter may be an issue
So how is that quality-wise in comparison with the output of K-5?
03-01-2012, 12:55 PM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samuel H Quote
it seems to be straight from the camera:
29.970 fps
H.264 AVC High 4.0
4:2:0 8-bit
21.9 Mbps for the video, 1 Mbps for the audio (PCM stereo)

the image itself is not bad, but it's not a very useful test
there's some wobble with vibrations, so rolling shutter may be an issue
It definitely wasnt the best example, hopefully we will see more soon, I messaged the guy on vimeo asking for more. it looks a bit soft to me but it looks like whatever lens was used was set to a large aperture. I could not see any artifacts on my hd monitor besides the jello which im sure sensor stabilization would have helped a ton with. my biggest concern is how it will downsample, everything else has failed besides the lumix bodies, heres to hoping it can compete. i know the guy who hacked the gh2 loves this camera, and he says he has the right tools to hack it, so if he gets enough support this could really be special.
03-01-2012, 01:53 PM   #193
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Agreed, not really the best example. Long lens, on a windy day, introducing lots and lots of jello-causing micro-vibrations. Image does looks nice though...
03-01-2012, 03:47 PM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by RonHendriks1966 Quote
So how is that quality-wise in comparison with the output of K-5?
Here is a K-5 test video that shows a M-JPEG bit rate of 81.04 mbits/sec :



click here for 1920x1200 px screenshot
03-01-2012, 03:51 PM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Here is a K-5 test video that shows a M-JPEG bit rate of 81.04 mbits/sec
Yes I know, and it vary's a lot, the bitrate of K-5 moviefootage. How is that compared to the output that K-01 gives (it looks like appels and pears to me).

In good light I do love what K-5 is giving, only limited to 5 minutes and 22 seconds in FullHD *** quality.
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