[wlachan]

I said "in normal lighting"

Words have meaning indeed. What is "normal" lighting? LCD on the back of any cameras are difficult to see on overcast days already. On sunny days, LCD is useless. Are those abnormal lighting? Also, viewfinder has the advantage of being less prone to camera shake due to the way the cameras will be held.

[dgaies]

I said "in normal lighting"

How exactly do you define "normal light"?

[hcarvalhoalves]

Because Canon and Nikon have really released strong contenders to the mirrorless market already, and Pentax's efforts end in 2012 with the K-01. Please.

You may not be happy with this offering, but please point me to the APS-C mirrorless cameras that Nikon and Canon currently offer. I am not aware of any. Also, it's called the K-zero-one for a reason. Expect changes and improvements to come in future iterations.

They don't have APS-C, but Pentax doesn't have a mirrorless with a viewfinder either. It's a draw for me.

And is it just how it is, the first product has to suck, and then you hold on expectations for the future? Why couldn't they release something that makes sense today - simply a K-mount mirrorless with a viewfinder?

In the timeframe it will take Pentax to release any new iteration on this, the competitors will probably have put forth 3-4 other models each. Just look at how many models Fuji (which was basically dead in the market) was able to pump in the last semesters. As soon as Canon or Nikon release an APS-C mirrorless able to take native mount lenses, with a decent EVF, Pentax will be out of the big game of an upcoming market - again.

[hcarvalhoalves]

I read it. I can understand wanting an eye-level viewfinder; that makes sense, and the k-5 has one. But I fail to see what you want an electronic one for specifically.

For one, an EVF offers many things lost since the 35mm-era, as well as new features:

A big viewfinder
Big, 100% coverage VF. Comparing the viewfinder in my ME - a comparatively tiny camera - with the ones in current DSLRs makes me wanna cry.

Doesn't have to black-out at smaller apertures / low-lighthing
Since image brightness can be increased via software. Makes it useful for long-exposures, ND-filters, etc.

Actually previews the correct DoF on fast lenses

Can show all kinds of information overlayed
For instance, can show where highlights or shadows blow, assistances for manual focus, levels, etc.

And all that without adding bulk to the camera. Not mention a mirrorless doesn't have a mirror or many movable parts, making it, in theory, a much more robust product.

The downside currently is the lack of constrast-ratio of current LED screens used in EVFs, but as soon as there's market demand for it, I don't see why those screens can't improve, specially considering how much it evolved in the past 1-2 years.

[v5planet]

They don't have APS-C, but Pentax doesn't have a mirrorless with a viewfinder either. It's a draw for me.

And is it just how it is, the first product has to suck, and then you hold on expectations for the future? Why couldn't they release something that makes sense today - simply a K-mount mirrorless with a viewfinder?

In the timeframe it will take Pentax to release any new iteration on this, the competitors will probably have put forth 3-4 other models each. Just look at how many models Fuji (which was basically dead in the market) was able to pump in the last semesters. As soon as Canon or Nikon release an APS-C mirrorless able to take native mount lenses, with a decent EVF, Pentax will be out of the big game of an upcoming market - again.

You could make the exact same argument about Nikon's J1. "It's a mirrorless, sure, but it doesn't have an EVF and isn't even APS-C! Clearly not appropriate for my uses. Why do first iterations of a product have to suck? It's not exactly what I wanted yet." People in Nikon forums are making those exact complaints.

This is an emerging format based around technologies that are not mature. Pentax may not win the race, but having a lead on your competitors counts for a lot.

[konraDarnok]

For one, an EVF offers many things lost since the 35mm-era, as well as new features:

A big viewfinder
Big, 100% coverage VF. Comparing the viewfinder in my ME - a comparatively tiny camera - with the ones in current DSLRs makes me wanna cry.

Doesn't have to black-out at smaller apertures / low-lighthing
Since image brightness can be increased via software. Makes it useful for long-exposures, ND-filters, etc.

Actually previews the correct DoF on fast lenses

Can show all kinds of information overlayed
For instance, can show where highlights or shadows blow, assistances for manual focus, levels, etc.

And all that without adding bulk to the camera. Not mention a mirrorless doesn't have a mirror or many movable parts, making it, in theory, a much more robust product.

The downside currently is the lack of constrast-ratio of current LED screens used in EVFs, but as soon as there's market demand for it, I don't see why those screens can't improve, specially considering how much it evolved in the past 1-2 years.

I actually agree that the future of cameras is EVF for all those reasons. But, that would be a successor to the K-5 -- not this camera. Which is not intended to be the next iteration of Pentax's flagship.

[hcarvalhoalves]

I actually agree that the future of cameras is EVF for all those reasons. But, that would be a successor to the K-5 -- not this camera. Which is not intended to be the next iteration of Pentax's flagship.

Well, but do you agree that Pentax would have a much more appealing product if they just added an EVF to the K-01? It may be not a perfect replacement for OVF right now, but why not settle for 80% instead of half-baked? I don't get it.

If they released this with EVF and WR, at a $ 1000 price point, they would still have a hit, arguably the best MILC in the market. But instead they released something that is just meh, mainly a K-mount camcorder in camera form-factor.

[wlachan]

Well, but do you agree that Pentax would have a much more appealing product if they just added an EVF to the K-01? It may be not a perfect replacement for OVF right now, but why not settle for 80% instead of half-baked? I don't get it.

Now which Pentax DSLR isn't 1/2 baked?

[Vylen]

For one, an EVF offers many things lost since the 35mm-era, as well as new features:

A big viewfinder
Big, 100% coverage VF. Comparing the viewfinder in my ME - a comparatively tiny camera - with the ones in current DSLRs makes me wanna cry.

Doesn't have to black-out at smaller apertures / low-lighthing
Since image brightness can be increased via software. Makes it useful for long-exposures, ND-filters, etc.

Actually previews the correct DoF on fast lenses

Can show all kinds of information overlayed
For instance, can show where highlights or shadows blow, assistances for manual focus, levels, etc.

And all that without adding bulk to the camera. Not mention a mirrorless doesn't have a mirror or many movable parts, making it, in theory, a much more robust product.

The downside currently is the lack of constrast-ratio of current LED screens used in EVFs, but as soon as there's market demand for it, I don't see why those screens can't improve, specially considering how much it evolved in the past 1-2 years.

No-one has really answered it clearly - ignoring lighting conditions, how would an EVF be "better" than using the bigger 3" screen on the back of the body? One person has said that it's less prone to camera shake because of the way you hold it, but each person is different so it may be the case for some and not for others.

Actually, lets put it like this. You have a mythical K-5 successor with an EVF, and the K-01 with its live-view screen. You're indoors in a well lit room (think a shopping mall, I guess) and they're both tripod mounted.

What advantages are there in an EVF, and what are the advantages in a live-view screen.

[hcarvalhoalves]

Now which Pentax DSLR isn't 1/2 baked?

Now you are just trolling

[wlachan]

Now you are just trolling

I knew it!

[kent]

Sorry haters, but I have to say, K-01 looks awesome. Case closed, good night

[hcarvalhoalves]

Actually, lets put it like this. You have a mythical K-5 successor with an EVF, and the K-01 with its live-view screen. You're indoors in a well lit room (think a shopping mall, I guess) and they're both tripod mounted.

What advantages are there in an EVF, and what are the advantages in a live-view screen.

Sure, because in 99% of the cases, that's the condition people shoot pictures. Indoors, and they take a tripod everywhere.

Are you serious?

[Vylen]

Sure, because in 99% of the cases, that's the condition people shoot pictures. Indoors, and they take a tripod everywhere.

Are you serious?

Yes, quite. I'm asking an "even" question where variables involving differing people would result in different answers.

[eddie1960]

For one, an EVF offers many things lost since the 35mm-era, as well as new features:

A big viewfinder
Big, 100% coverage VF. Comparing the viewfinder in my ME - a comparatively tiny camera - with the ones in current DSLRs makes me wanna cry.

Doesn't have to black-out at smaller apertures / low-lighthing
Since image brightness can be increased via software. Makes it useful for long-exposures, ND-filters, etc.

Actually previews the correct DoF on fast lenses

Can show all kinds of information overlayed
For instance, can show where highlights or shadows blow, assistances for manual focus, levels, etc.

And all that without adding bulk to the camera. Not mention a mirrorless doesn't have a mirror or many movable parts, making it, in theory, a much more robust product.

The downside currently is the lack of constrast-ratio of current LED screens used in EVFs, but as soon as there's market demand for it, I don't see why those screens can't improve, specially considering how much it evolved in the past 1-2 years.

first the Kx finder you use is a lousy finder compared to old film ones, but Pentax has said all future OVF will be 100% finders. i imagine the dimmer pentamirror will be the low end and the pentaprism will remain in the high end. The large 35mm finder is a function of the larger film size. a FF body will have a large OVF.
one of the reasons to buy up to a K5/K7 is the brighter Pentaprism finder.
all the other reason apply to the LCD as well.

Projected overlays could also be done for some of the ideas on an OVF.

Reality is the is the entry product not the top model. it's the first step into the market and stiocks to a reasonable pricve. The Nex 7 has what you want (at a much higher price. so does the Xpro1 also a much higher price. the Nex 5 optional EVF adds $400 to the nex price (sony store price), the NEX OVF is $250 (like the Q one) - which i find stupidly expensive.

I'm pretty certain when the enthusiast mirrorless arrives it will add the EVF WR, dual wheels etc. thias just isn't the camera that will be targeted at you
(the new kr which likely is this camera with a 100% OVF and PDAf focus may well be an alternative for some people