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02-04-2012, 08:09 AM   #31
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Apple sells 350,000 iPhones a day and that makes it the largest selling 8mp/1080p camera on the planet that is also worth more than any company on the planet ($428 Billion) with $100 billion in cash. The K-01 will be on every Pentax website before any are shipped to retail so I would not worry about it.

02-04-2012, 07:08 PM   #32
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Jonathan Ive and Marc Newson Gripe About Design's Current State

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At a recent London screening of the new documentary about industrial design, Objectified, Apple's lead designer Jonathan Ive joined Marc Newson to introduce the film. The event wasn't exactly a love-note to contemporary design--the film itself is deeply ambivalent about consumption, and Ive and Newson took the chance to unload about design's present condition.

As Design Week reports:

...Ive expressed nostalgia for the days before rapid prototyping.'When we started out we made all our own models. Just pressing "print" is an obstacle to designers being close to the materials and the object. There is a lot of lousy design,' he said. Ive also attributed the 'awful arbitrariness of form' to technological advances on electronic products. 'Form being divorced from a product's function is a huge and incredible challenge for design,' said Apple's senior vice-president of industrial design. He declined to comment on the state of the U.K.'s digital product design industry, and said he 'didn't know' if he'd ever come back to work here.

Sorry, England. Newson, meanwhile, was no more sanguine:

Newson attacked the use of focus groups in developing products, branding them 'ridiculous' and claiming that he lacks faith 'in consumer's ability to know what they want'. 'Democratisation ultimately pollutes design,' said Newson.
Meanwhile, Ive chose to lampoon designers, claiming to be 'shocked at how disconnected so many designers are from the object, and end up doing a lousy job.'
Jonathan Ive and Marc Newson Gripe About Design's Current State | Fast Company



QuoteQuote:
Newson’s lifeline on the road when he’s traveling two weeks per month is an iPhone 4S. What gratifies him about the success of Apple products, beyond the fact that the Apple design chief, Jonathan Ive, is one of his best friends, is that it has vindicated the value of design.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/29/magazine/marc-newson.html?pagewanted=3&_r=1

Last edited by jogiba; 02-04-2012 at 07:20 PM.
02-04-2012, 07:27 PM   #33
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It just looks like function is subjugated to form in nearly every example I have seen of his work. Again, photography has been about making everyone a potential artist - democratizing art - which is something he and his design friend are offended by - so why design a camera?
02-04-2012, 09:50 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
so why design a camera?
Money, honey.

02-05-2012, 10:17 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
Money, honey.
Oh sure, go for the obvious.
02-05-2012, 06:38 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
It just looks like function is subjugated to form in nearly every example I have seen of his work. Again, photography has been about making everyone a potential artist - democratizing art - which is something he and his design friend are offended by - so why design a camera?
It's because Marc is just one of the many designers who consider themselves clerks, and believe the designer's job is to reinvent or give his own interpretation to products. The result is something that really works for MoMA.

For a completely different school of though, I recommend reading Christopher Alexander. He defines good design as a map from problems to design solutions, where the form is a natural result from function, not the opposite. He achieved this conclusion from looking at a particular long and iterative process in human history: how traditional populations designed their own houses (or huts). Similarly, you might say the same thing happened to cameras, a century-long design process that's still on-going.

He even devised a formal system for coming up with good design, inspired on the interactions that happen naturally on problem-solving. Particularly I find him a genius, and his work influenced not only architecture, but many other areas. I apply his findings on software engineering myself.

Ive is a completely different case. Apple's designs are opinionated, and they "reinvent" products constantly, and are very succesful at that. The difference is that they also apply one very important design constraint: focus on user experience. They are also very critical of their own designs, rarely releasing something half-assed, so there are powerful natural selection forces occuring on their design phase as well. So they don't just reinvent for the sake of being different, that's just a stupid goal to settle.

Last edited by hcarvalhoalves; 02-05-2012 at 06:58 PM.
02-05-2012, 07:17 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
. . . everything Apple does blah blah blah
Apple handheld products are awful for business users and they are not productive nor intuitive. Apple has done a marvelous job of convincing other designers and opinion makers they are Eve's dinner and they're pretty, but they're actually practically useless as real tools.
02-05-2012, 10:56 PM   #38
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Lessons from... Dieter Rams

I think both Apple (via Ive) and Pentax (via Newson) have both been documented as being influenced by Dieter rams to a large extent. Some of Rams work for Braun was about as good as it gets, and I can see elements of his work in the K-01.

02-06-2012, 06:34 AM   #39
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Not even listed on the Aussie website (not that I could find). Maybe we're not getting it
02-06-2012, 07:35 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by ecnal Quote
I think both Apple (via Ive) and Pentax (via Newson) have both been documented as being influenced by Dieter rams to a large extent.
I agree.

Unfortunately, however, I feel that Newson only references Rams in part. I think that Newson's K-01 design does not meet some of Rams' design principles.
02-06-2012, 08:07 PM   #41
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"Unfortunately, however, I feel that Newson only references Rams in part. "

Yes, and that is par for the course with design. Borrow a bit here, inject your own inspiration there, borrow something else, reference this/that etc. If Newson followed Rams in whole, then he would be a poor designer. It is the accumulation of his influences/personal opinions/objectives expressed through design that matters.
02-06-2012, 09:01 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Apple handheld products are awful for business users and they are not productive nor intuitive. Apple has done a marvelous job of convincing other designers and opinion makers they are Eve's dinner and they're pretty, but they're actually practically useless as real tools.
And your point is?

None, because you are just trolling my posts. Get a life.
02-07-2012, 01:55 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
And your point is?

None, because you are just trolling my posts. Get a life.
There are other opinions than yours, other user profiles than yours, other needs than yours and products made for other preferences than yours.

Your opinion, however, is all yours.
02-07-2012, 02:04 PM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Apple handheld products are awful for business users and they are not productive nor intuitive.....
Not my experience with the iPhone, but YMMV.
02-07-2012, 02:21 PM   #45
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Actually, it isn't the hardware that is challenging - its the native apps. Can't link these without subscribing to iCloud, a comparatively new consolidator.
  • Calendar
  • Contacts
  • Email
  • Maps
Cannot integrate the three apps into a contact management system
  • Link a Contact to a Calendar entry?
    • No - have to type the Name in
    • Can't Find an appointment by Contact name
  • Make an email distribution list from Contacts?
    • No - have to add each Contact every time
  • Schedule a set group of Contacts for an Event?
    • Not at all
  • Link a Group of contacts
    • Not at all
  • Map a set Group of Contacts
    • Not at all
Now some would say that misses the point. The iPhone should not be thought of as self-contained. You must use it as an iCloud node. And I can't do that because the Cloud isn't secure enough for the needs of my business.

So to use iPhone4s and iPad2 I would force to structure my entire business the way Apple thinks is the best way for me to do that, and I can't use their tool my own way because it is closed architecture.

The iPhone is a wonderful product for its intended use, but its intended use has limits that don't meet my needs.

Sort of like the K-01.
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