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02-05-2012, 07:21 PM   #301
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
John, you made a general statement. How could I have known that some systems were "in your mind" at the time and should be included in that general statement, while others were not? I was only pointing out that you could be (unknowingly) misleading those readers who do not know the MFT system.

I meant no personal slight.
Actually, looking back on the discussion, I was comparing the K-01's K-mount to the other design path Pentax could have taken, a thinner camera with a new mount and a K-adapter. It made no reference to any other system.

At the end of the day, Robin, no offense taken, but please do me a favor and ask what I mean if you don't think that I'm clear.

02-05-2012, 07:23 PM   #302
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We'll have to see what the OM-D ends up costing. Right now, if it is closer to $1,200 like originally rumored I will find it much more tempting than the Fuji at $1,700.
02-05-2012, 07:35 PM - 1 Like   #303
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
I won't consider the OM-D, because I need high ISO performance but I put in my pre-order for the XPro-1 right after the K-01 official announcment. Already let the wife know to expect a slug on the bank statement. I was leaning that direction anyway, and I'm on an upgrade cycle, so money to spend. Might end up with the NEX7. But the K-01, as massively cheaper as it would be for me, isn't even on my radar. It has zero attraction outside of price. I don't care about how it looks, cameras are tools, and I could care less how a chisel looks. It's just aimed so irrationally low, it's kind of insulting.

And ultimately, it doesn't matter how many people here are going to order it. As someone pointed out earlier, Pentax users are an extremely niche market. The question is how many people will it attract to K-mount?
I don't think anyone's arguing that rear LCD composition is impossible, just not always the best answer, and it's nice to have the option.

If I'd wanted a flashlight I'd have brought my own. In many circumstances, it's nice (and nice to those around you) to be able to be more unobtrusive. But maybe unobtrusive is too 'retro'.

And this crappy picture was actually composed on an LCD, overhead and tilted and swiveled so I and the bartender were the only ones who could see it. If you going to say that size and bulk don't matter, and that an LCD is perfectly fine as the only viewfinder, then explain why the least flexible LCD arrangement makes sense.
Cool. Where's the piano trio at?

Sales are not a be all and end all, but Fuji is just going to sell a boatload of those cameras. I'm buying one. It's beautiful, Fuji's products are extremely well made, and it will do what I want it to do. That doesn't mean the K01 is a bad camera. It's a pretty daring design. I kind of like it but I just can't do without a viewfinder and the lens is too slow.

Does that mean I think the Fuji is for everyone, heck no. And yes, I think it's expensive but it's not if you get a lot of use out of it. The most expensive thing you have is the lens or camera body you buy and never use. I've been getting rid of a lot of camera stuff lately because I bought it, used it once or twice and put it in the closet. I stopped reading this forum for a few days because people start criticizing you over what camera you choose. It's all a matter of personal taste. All these cameras are really incredible compared to when I started doing photography. You just pick the one you like and don't worry about what someone else is using. Instead of tearing something down, focus on what you like about the camera you have or are going to get.
02-05-2012, 08:17 PM   #304
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QuoteOriginally posted by stanleyk Quote
Cool. Where's the piano trio at?

Sales are not a be all and end all, but Fuji is just going to sell a boatload of those cameras. I'm buying one. It's beautiful, Fuji's products are extremely well made, and it will do what I want it to do. That doesn't mean the K01 is a bad camera. It's a pretty daring design. I kind of like it but I just can't do without a viewfinder and the lens is too slow.

Does that mean I think the Fuji is for everyone, heck no. And yes, I think it's expensive but it's not if you get a lot of use out of it. The most expensive thing you have is the lens or camera body you buy and never use. I've been getting rid of a lot of camera stuff lately because I bought it, used it once or twice and put it in the closet. I stopped reading this forum for a few days because people start criticizing you over what camera you choose. It's all a matter of personal taste. All these cameras are really incredible compared to when I started doing photography. You just pick the one you like and don't worry about what someone else is using. Instead of tearing something down, focus on what you like about the camera you have or are going to get.
It definitely looks like it will be a cool camera, Stanley. I hope you enjoy it. Actually was a little bummed today that I don't have enough money to buy all these cool cameras coming out. Has there ever been so many great options?

02-05-2012, 08:17 PM   #305
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote

Everyone seen this shot of the OM-D line-up (courtesy 43rumours.com)? Think this isn't a "system"? Think that camera enthusiasts will be turned off by the lack of choice? Think again.
Look at this photo closely and you'll see that they are "padding the bra" a little bit. I see two versions of the 17/2.8, two versions of the 14-42 collapsing zoom, two versions of the 12-50 and three of the 40-150. That's 6 extra lenses!
02-05-2012, 09:55 PM   #306
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QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
I don't really hear of anything else apart from cameras being targeted at the Asian markets, I mean Smartphones barely sell there compared to the West.
OMG ! Honestly ? Do you just make these 'facts' up ? Do you know that iPhone 4 sold 500,000 units on the first day alone it was launched here ? But that is costs twice as much as in the USA ? The iPhone 4s launch was cancelled because of near riots before the stores opened ! China sells more smartphones that ANY other country in the world. Jesus wept ! Google is your friend.

QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
We all know China will become a 'superpower' as time goes, but unless your telling me Pentax wants to primarily target Asia the K-01 seems to be a design flop.
That's exactly what I've been trying to say for the past few pages ! Do you not know that Japan releases more models of all electronic products purely for their home market than are ever released in the West (and Sony have stated they will now offer all of these models to China as well) ? Look are the multitude of colours the Kr was available in for some Asian countries - yet the West were offered just 3 of them.

QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
Also no I can only read 2 languages but Google translates pages for me...so..
So did you of to Asian forums and check out the comments there ? Of course not so I don't see the point of your comment.

QuoteOriginally posted by userage Quote
And no of course you cannot translate polls to sales but it does give a general idea of people's views and so far its not good.. I'm sure for one thing that the price they are selling it at in the UK, I don't think it will do well here. A K-5 is only $80 more..
On this we agree - though that has more to do with the paying the extortionate 'UK tax' (not really a tax - just profiteering) on imports than in real world sales. The UK market is tiny and pretty much irrelevant in terms of a global picture though so I doubt any camera manufacturer is worried too much about how their products sell there.
02-05-2012, 10:07 PM   #307
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QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
They are not huge, that's just it. All of this is smaller than it looks. And if you want tiny, pick up a E-PM1 or E-PL3!

Pentax, also known for small lenses of high quality, could well have gone the same route. But instead of offering the K-mount as a value-added extra, they've constrained the entire system to it.
Because of course there are no adapters that fit on the K mount for the lenses of other manufacturers ? Oh !

Personally I see the benefit of having a camera with a mount with more small lenses available off the shelf (not still in design) and having full AF for them too.

Olympus went down the MFT road a long time ago because if they continued with their previous DSLR sales then they were dead in the water. It's paid off and I'm very pleased it did (having started my photography with two Oly cameras).
02-05-2012, 10:11 PM   #308
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It'll be interesting to see what the OM-D sensor's capable of doing. One aspect about the 4/3 camp that I've wondered about is the slow development of sensors. There has been some improvement here and there, but IMO nothing compared to how APS-C sensors have improved during the last years. In my eyes all the 4/3 sensors look like they're more or less same generation products.

Then again, if it is the same sensor as GH2 has, its properties are already known.

02-05-2012, 10:56 PM   #309
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The simple fact is that you don't like the K-01. We get it.
Yes, but it's not like I don't like it because it's not good for me - I don't like it because it's not good for Pentax. That may be harder to get, I guess.

I may be missing something in their strategy, of course, but everyone else seem to do that too, since it's hard to place this camera as part of a growth plan for Pentax.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
But that doesn't mean that the K-01 isn't going to bring in a group of photographers (younger than yourself and about half the people posting on the forum right now), who wouldn't give your precious Fuji or the Pentax K5, for that matter, a sideways glance.
That is the part that is interesting to talk about - what makes you think that the K-01 is going to attract young photographers?
02-05-2012, 10:59 PM   #310
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Fuji X-Pro 1 is really ugly. Olympus OM-D looks like a rehash of their old OM models, again guaranteed to appeal to old fogies.

The K-01, especially the yellow one looks really cool and new age. I predict the K-01 is going to sell like hotcakes, and prove to get really hard to get hold of.

The K-01 is the kind of camera you could take to a party and not feel like that nutter in Chronicle who walks around everywhere filming everything with his huge retro video camera.
02-05-2012, 11:15 PM   #311
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
You're right that emerging photographers are probably not invested in K-mount, but I would hope that they would be comforted by the fact that the K-01 that they are thinking of buying can be used with dozens of current lens models and millions of used lenses.
Canon, Nikon, Sony also offer the same thing with their EF, F, A mounts.They have more millions of lenses and more modern lenses in their lineups than Pentax. So what is the big value proposition that Pentax makes in this area?
02-05-2012, 11:30 PM   #312
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The big value proposition are the tiny jewel like DA Limiteds that would look super cool on the K-01.
02-05-2012, 11:32 PM   #313
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Canon, Nikon, Sony also offer the same thing with their EF, F, A mounts.They have more millions of lenses and more modern lenses in their lineups than Pentax. So what is the big value proposition that Pentax makes in this area?
You know, if you really think about it, and somebody must have mentioned this along the way, but every time one purchases a second hand lens, relatively speaking one is more prone to ending up with a shit quality lens with fungus and spots and scratches and all that. Also, some of what I consider critically acclaimed lenses such as A* are not only ridiculously costly, but rather difficult to find. Of those millions that are out there, great many of those are no better than what you can get from other brands.
02-05-2012, 11:38 PM   #314
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Canon, Nikon, Sony also offer the same thing with their EF, F, A mounts.They have more millions of lenses and more modern lenses in their lineups than Pentax. So what is the big value proposition that Pentax makes in this area?



Size and price. For the price of the body on the right, you can buy the body on the left and 3 prime lenses.

I don't think that there's going to be a huge chunk of sales in this area, but this does crack open the door. I've got two photography friends - one a Canon pro and the other a Nikon semi-pro. Both shoot full frame along with an arsenal of fast primes and zooms. Both recently starting looking at smaller systems for personal photography. They both could have purchased consumer dSLRs from their respected brands, but they didn't. I suspect that because they'd have to buy small primes anyway as their FF lenses are fast and large. Also, I think the idea of buying a cheap plastic dSLR will constantly remind them of work and of the big fancy dSLR they left at home. Part of what they want I think is something different, something that doesn't remind them of work and maybe take them back to a more innocent time in their photographic journey.

One guy just bought a Panasonic GX1 with the collapsing 14-45 zoom because he wanted something that would fit in his pocket. I let him play with my 45/1.8 and he bought it the next day. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 14/2.5 or 12/2 and a 20/1.7 or a 25/1.4 in his near future.

The other guy is coveting the Fuji X 1 Pro. For photos of his twin granddaughters. Reminds him of his beloved Contax G2. He's waiting for reviews before doing the deed.

I suspect that there are more pros and semi-pros like them. And the K-01 plus a trio of DA Limited could make photography fun again.

Now this is where Pentax Marketing really needs to kick it. Don't sell the specs - in this day and age people will find all the numbers that they want. Sell the emotional. Sell the sizzle. Sell the myth of the heroic street photog with the K-01 and a fistful of primes in the small Domke bag. Or the young creative mind on a hike, the K-01 her tool to help tap the wellspring of ideas that she bring back to work and incorporates in her next design. Or....you get the idea.

Last edited by johnmflores; 02-05-2012 at 11:44 PM.
02-06-2012, 12:02 AM - 1 Like   #315
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QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
I might have to change to Olympus, why Pentax does not listen to their fans and Olympus does? seeing that OM-D its my dream camera
Is it your dream?


really? 16 MP at crop 2? for 1100 EURO? Looks like some kind of wardrobe or bookcase

Last edited by ogl; 02-06-2012 at 12:10 AM.
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