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02-06-2012, 05:52 AM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote


Size and price. For the price of the body on the right, you can buy the body on the left and 3 prime lenses.

I don't think that there's going to be a huge chunk of sales in this area, but this does crack open the door. I've got two photography friends - one a Canon pro and the other a Nikon semi-pro. Both shoot full frame along with an arsenal of fast primes and zooms. Both recently starting looking at smaller systems for personal photography. They both could have purchased consumer dSLRs from their respected brands, but they didn't. I suspect that because they'd have to buy small primes anyway as their FF lenses are fast and large. Also, I think the idea of buying a cheap plastic dSLR will constantly remind them of work and of the big fancy dSLR they left at home. Part of what they want I think is something different, something that doesn't remind them of work and maybe take them back to a more innocent time in their photographic journey.

One guy just bought a Panasonic GX1 with the collapsing 14-45 zoom because he wanted something that would fit in his pocket. I let him play with my 45/1.8 and he bought it the next day. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a 14/2.5 or 12/2 and a 20/1.7 or a 25/1.4 in his near future.

The other guy is coveting the Fuji X 1 Pro. For photos of his twin granddaughters. Reminds him of his beloved Contax G2. He's waiting for reviews before doing the deed.

I suspect that there are more pros and semi-pros like them. And the K-01 plus a trio of DA Limited could make photography fun again.

Now this is where Pentax Marketing really needs to kick it. Don't sell the specs - in this day and age people will find all the numbers that they want. Sell the emotional. Sell the sizzle. Sell the myth of the heroic street photog with the K-01 and a fistful of primes in the small Domke bag. Or the young creative mind on a hike, the K-01 her tool to help tap the wellspring of ideas that she bring back to work and incorporates in her next design. Or....you get the idea.
Who in there right mind would pay for 3 prime lenses for a compact camera lol. Jeeez.... its just a point and shoot job ! Anyone getting excited about such a thing is easily pleased lol. Its nothing more than a design concept for the fasion brigade. Even pentax themselves dont expect a serious photographer to buy them.

02-06-2012, 06:02 AM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
Who in there right mind would pay for 3 prime lenses for a compact camera lol. Jeeez.... its just a point and shoot job ! Anyone getting excited about such a thing is easily pleased lol. Its nothing more than a design concept for the fasion brigade. Even pentax themselves dont expect a serious photographer to buy them.
If you read my post you'll note that one of my (pro) friends just did - a Panasonic GX1 - and that another (semi-pro) is contemplating a Fuji X Pro 1 to take snapshots of his grandchildren. Should I tell them that they were fools for doing so and should carry their full frame Canon and Nikons instead?

And since I pre-ordered the K-01 should I stop being a serious photographer and start turning down paid assignments?
02-06-2012, 06:16 AM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Did you even read my post? My Canon friend (a 1D shooting pro) did not even consider the entry level Canons.
Yes, I read your post where you stated:
QuoteQuote:
Both recently starting looking at smaller systems for personal photography. They both could have purchased consumer dSLRs from their respected brands
So I am unsure as to where the 7D came from. If you are going to compare the pros and cons of a Canon DSLR vs a K-01 you should pick the one closest in spec. Instead you use the 7D just so the price and size difference can be exaggerated.
02-06-2012, 06:20 AM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Fair enough, I was making more of a general observation, and should have skipped quoting your post.

Either way, I was completely against 4/3 for a long time; then I read some interesting articles from accomplished photographers who claimed the print quality--even at larger sizes--from 4/3 sensors was sufficient for them, and it got me digging into the subject a bit more. Well, turns out that current 4/3 cameras will produce absolutely excellent prints at least at the sizes (13x19) I generally print at. So unless I am sitting staring at 100% crops on the computer I would not find 4/3 lacking in any way.

Of course I still like (and will continue to use) FF since my legacy lenses are "right" on that format, but if one considers just the camera system (without taking into account adapting older glass etc) it looks at least to me as if m4/3 is completely sufficient image quality wise. Now, tracking autofocus and such I doubt is there yet nor will be for some time, so it is not all roses... (but that is a camera disadvantage, not a sensor size disadvantage!)
The Olympus system is fantastic. 13 x 19 eeeek the old E1 was capable of that with only 5 milion pixels.
The E5 produces breathtakingly sharp pics.
Read the in depth reveiws in depreveiw before listning
to some of the stupid statements ive read lol

02-06-2012, 06:21 AM   #350
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Pentax K-01 vs Fuji X-Pro 1 vs Olympus OM-D

Since I have the K-7 and a ton of K-mount lenses along with the M4/3rds system (GH2,GH1, 25mm F0.95, 14-45mm, 40-150mm etc) and shoot mainly video what would the Fuji X-Pro 1 or Olympus OM-D give me that the K-01 does not ?
02-06-2012, 06:21 AM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
This is commonly known as "insecurity."
Indeed.

QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Seriously, do you guys not see this insane bias? Should Pentax release a camera the size of a D4 with a cell phone sensor in it, you'd somehow find a way to praise it.
Indeed.

This is why I stopped posting here. I prefer to discuss which tools are better for a given job. Instead we get thinly veiled propaganda.

I was always willing to praise Pentax and promote them when they did a good job. But now I'm off to buy more PEN cameras and lenses. I'll be back to Pentax when they get a freakin' clue.
02-06-2012, 06:31 AM   #352
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
The Olympus system is fantastic. 13 x 19 eeeek the old E1 was capable of that with only 5 milion pixels.
The E5 produces breathtakingly sharp pics.
Read the in depth reveiws in depreveiw before listning
to some of the stupid statements ive read lol
Tell me something outstanding from Olympus primes?

Rather mediocre lenses. New 12/2 and 45/1.8 - nothing special at all for me. But it doesn't mean - it's bad. Good. But it's not Limited.
It is not for me.

Last edited by ogl; 02-06-2012 at 07:08 AM.
02-06-2012, 06:37 AM   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I think K-01, OM-D and X-Pro 1 are different cameras with different philosophy and with different niche.

OM-D - it's like small DSLR - top-camera for m4/3 - if we compare with Pentax - we should compare with K-5's replacement. I think it will better in every aspects than OM-D.
OM-D is not K-01 niche.

X-Pro1 is stylized retro digital rangerfinder from Fuji. Top system from Fuji. Original. Nothing to compare.

K-01 is absolutely different mentality...It's like P&S camera with K-mount.

As for me - I can't compare so different machines...
I think this is the issue. all 3 are different categories. As much as I like the look of the OM-D for me it's a no go, i'd rather have a k5 replacement at the price it's estimated at and have better iq, more resolution better DOF and if the K01 is an indicator comparable if not better video

Fuji - it's competition is really the epson (good luck getting on unless you are in japan, and the leica m9 at several times the price (even though the fuji is not a true RF. - Certainly this is an appealing camera but it's not designed to compete with DSLR systems so much as it is to complement them. I could see owning one, but I'd still have a DSLR as well (probably a FF to complement this) - I think it will sell a lot initially as there is pent up demand in the RF community and this may well be good enough so to speak, dd in the people shooting big pro systems that want a compact high iq unit for walkabout, and the people who will buy it because of the look alone and it will do well

K-01 - doesn't belong in the league of the above and isn't priced that way. Target is a completely different consumer. whether P&S up-graders will buy into the look and system potential is hard to read at this point since those same people aren't the ones frequenting photo blogs and forums. Certainly it has the potential to be best in it's price class form an iq and video standpoint, and I imagine there will be users who buy it as their video camera to complement their K5

02-06-2012, 06:39 AM   #354
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Yes, I read your post where you stated:


So I am unsure as to where the 7D came from. If you are going to compare the pros and cons of a Canon DSLR vs a K-01 you should pick the one closest in spec. Instead you use the 7D just so the price and size difference can be exaggerated.
I actually considered posting a pic of the 600d (T3i?) but instead chose the 7D because of price. Someone heavily invested in Canon might look at the cost of entry of getting a smaller second system (not just the body) and relate it back to their Canon world.

K-01 + 3 primes (40XS, DA21, DA70) ~= 7D

likewise:

Panasonic GX1 + 3 primes (14, 20, 45) ~= 7D

and

Fuji Pro 1 X + 3 primes ~= 5Dii + ???

At the end of the day, spec comparisons and price comparisons are both valid.

FWIW, both the photographers that I'm writing about previously had Canon G-series Point-and-shoots as their "play" camera. They thought that they were neat cameras but didn't have the speed or low-light performance they wanted.
02-06-2012, 06:41 AM   #355
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
If you read my post you'll note that one of my (pro) friends just did - a Panasonic GX1 - and that another (semi-pro) is contemplating a Fuji X Pro 1 to take snapshots of his grandchildren. Should I tell them that they were fools for doing so and should carry their full frame Canon and Nikons instead?

And since I pre-ordered the K-01 should I stop being a serious photographer and start turning down paid assignments?
What has the GX1 and Fuji got to do with the k1 ?
And even if they bought a K1... so what ?
They would have bought them for snap shots !
If you have ordered a K1 im very happy for you LOL
There is nothing wrong with it. I never said at any stage it was a bad camera. It is what it is... a simple compact.
Big deal ! All im saying is, anyone buying expensive glass and spending a fortune on it, is highly unlikely and totaly bonkers. Ive got a little Olympus I carry everywhere..... what has that got to do with the price of butter ? I know if I turned up for a paid assignment with it I wouldnt expect any more work from them lol
02-06-2012, 06:58 AM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
What has the GX1 and Fuji got to do with the k1 ?
I was planning to buy the GX1 later in the year - I've got both Pentax and M43 glass. I'm pre-ordering the K-01 instead. Personally, I find it interesting that among my photo friends, we are already vested in dSLRs and are now looking at alternatives.

QuoteQuote:
And even if they bought a K1... so what ?
They would have bought them for snap shots !
If you have ordered a K1 im very happy for you LOL
There is nothing wrong with it. I never said at any stage it was a bad camera. It is what it is... a simple compact.
Big deal ! All im saying is, anyone buying expensive glass and spending a fortune on it, is highly unlikely and totaly bonkers. Ive got a little Olympus I carry everywhere..... what has that got to do with the price of butter ? I know if I turned up for a paid assignment with it I wouldnt expect any more work from them lol
I look at it this way - it's the best APS-C sensor in the market in a body smaller than any dSLR. It's also compatible with small, highly-regarded primes. If you are comfortable shooting without a VF and want class-leading IQ, it's a compelling option.

BTW, I prefer to have my clients judge me by my photographs, not by my gear. I've shot paying gigs with a red K-x. If my clients ask, I just tell them it's the RED!
02-06-2012, 07:21 AM   #357
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I was planning to buy the GX1 later in the year - I've got both Pentax and M43 glass. I'm pre-ordering the K-01 instead. Personally, I find it interesting that among my photo friends, we are already vested in dSLRs and are now looking at alternatives.



I look at it this way - it's the best APS-C sensor in the market in a body smaller than any dSLR. It's also compatible with small, highly-regarded primes. If you are comfortable shooting without a VF and want class-leading IQ, it's a compelling option.

BTW, I prefer to have my clients judge me by my photographs, not by my gear. I've shot paying gigs with a red K-x. If my clients ask, I just tell them it's the RED!
And that doesnt change what it is.... a simple compact.
You have obviously bought it for certain reasons.
I wish you all the best with it.
I aggree too that clients should judge you by your work.
Unfortunately, we live in the real world though.
Firstly.... impressions do count, if you like it or not.
So far this month.... three clients I have spoken to asked me straight out what camera I use.
02-06-2012, 07:27 AM   #358
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
So far this month.... three clients I have spoken to asked me straight out what camera I use.
Which is the most irrelevant question they could ask. the thing that counts is the portfolio not the camera (as long as it can provide a file suitable to the use - if it's a billboard you may need a better camera than a K5 (or for that matter a D4. It really is more suitable to Medium format for best image - which anyone who doesn't own one can always rent for the odd job as well)
If they are asking the question they probably want to hear canon or nikon. which is silly of course since a d3100 is a Nikon and a rebel is a Canon.

the best answer is The one suited to the needed output and I have several different cameras at my disposal.
02-06-2012, 07:41 AM   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
three clients I have spoken to asked me straight out what camera I use.
Just as well you aren't Terry Richardson, I guess.
02-06-2012, 07:43 AM   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
Firstly.... impressions do count, if you like it or not.
So far this month.... three clients I have spoken to asked me straight out what camera I use.
You do have a point there. I'm lucky enough that I don't encounter that too often.
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