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02-07-2012, 11:35 AM   #421
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Photographers tend to be visual people (obviously), people who swing hammers for a living.... not so much. People who did ditches with shovels.... not so much.
Wow. You should get out more.

02-07-2012, 12:06 PM   #422
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I don't see anyone announcing 3rd party support for the Q. It is not selling well enough to attract 3rd party development. I would buy M4/3 long before I would buy the Q. There are several P&S cameras I would buy before selecting the Q.
since the big thing is lens adapters i see a pretty good number without trying on ebay

eBay: pentax q adapter
02-07-2012, 12:24 PM   #423
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
since the big thing is lens adapters i see a pretty good number without trying on ebay

eBay: pentax q adapter
I read in one of those Japanese photo magazine that third party lens manufactures have requested to liberalize Q mount, but this dude was quoted as saying that they are not quite ready to do that yet.
02-07-2012, 12:42 PM   #424
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I read in one of those Japanese photo magazine that third party lens manufactures have requested to liberalize Q mount, but this dude was quoted as saying that they are not quite ready to do that yet.
i imagine they want to get their own lenses to market before the third party ones
and they beat Lomo to the punch on the toy lenses for it

02-07-2012, 12:53 PM   #425
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
i imagine they want to get their own lenses to market before the third party ones
and they beat Lomo to the punch on the toy lenses for it
Yep. I recall that was what was said. There few lenses in the pipeline.
02-08-2012, 02:08 AM   #426
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Simple. The Fuji is the fountain of youth, putting hair back on the chests (and heads) of older photographers, shrinking the dreaded middle-aged spread, and making them daydream about being HCB stopping for a cigarette and espresso at a Parisian cafe. The OM-D is likely to trigger similar synapses.
I love this post. Excellent!

The Fuji should come with a sample of Caboki!

02-08-2012, 08:13 AM   #427
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Can't wait for Winder...

K-01
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #1,177 (+2,255) in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#31 (+40) in*Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras

XPro-1
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #95 (-33) in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#2 (Even) in Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras

The Pentax still trails by a margin, but gains ground from yesterday. I wish I could make book on this, this could get exciting if money were on the line.
02-08-2012, 09:00 AM   #428
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What I think about OM-D (and X-Pro1 too in some ways): ( too many delights...too many moans - "why it's not Pentax...")



It's typical Japanese/Chinese manners to copy old and another ideas...I dislike it.

Too many efforts to put more features into small retro body. The aim is clear.

The main aim is to make 4/3 users change theirs seats and take to m4/3.
To attract retro and small cameras lovers... Money (nothing to discuss - everybody need money )

But...What can we expect from IQ and Olympus lenses?
Rather mediocre results. Crop 2 is forever. It's unreal to deceive physics.
Consumer level.

Is this camera Attractive? Yes. Well-made? Yes.
Good featured? Yes...
But it's all marketing tricks. Game.
The new cameras are soulless for me. X-Pro1, OM-D are not real retro cameras, it's fake.
RETRO is new fetish...

The retro flirting of camera-makers and retro-design makes me sick. It's like peanut politician.

You can throw rotten tomatoes at me...

That's why I welcome K-01, because it's unusual camera from unusual designer. It's different.

02-08-2012, 11:09 AM   #429
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
What I think about OM-D (and X-Pro1 too in some ways): ( too many delights...too many moans - "why it's not Pentax...")



It's typical Japanese/Chinese manners to copy old and another ideas...I dislike it.

Too many efforts to put more features into small retro body. The aim is clear.

The main aim is to make 4/3 users change theirs seats and take to m4/3.
To attract retro and small cameras lovers... Money (nothing to discuss - everybody need money )

But...What can we expect from IQ and Olympus lenses?
Rather mediocre results. Crop 2 is forever. It's unreal to deceive physics.
Consumer level.

Is this camera Attractive? Yes. Well-made? Yes.
Good featured? Yes...
But it's all marketing tricks. Game.
The new cameras are soulless for me. X-Pro1, OM-D are not real retro cameras, it's fake.
RETRO is new fetish...

The retro flirting of camera-makers and retro-design makes me sick. It's like peanut politician.

You can throw rotten tomatoes at me...

That's why I welcome K-01, because it's unusual camera from unusual designer. It's different.
the retro fetish is here for a while i think, and the fuji I think will still be an excellent camera (though it is missing things I think would have been smart like SR and Focus peaking for MF lenses) it will in many ways be a step back in operation
I don't compare the K-01 to these 2 as they are more aimed at the enthusiast end of the market like the Nex 7 - which looks good on paper but is impossible to buy)
I think the K-01 looks very user freindly and I like designs that change the way we think. If we never accepted radical new designs we'd be walking around with glass plate cameras, or boxes like the kodak brownie, or barnett style RFs. all game changers in their time, but i bet a lot of RF users though the SLR was a fugly huge beast when it came out too. then they tried them and history changed the perception.
K-01 solves one of my biggest problems with mirrorless like the nex I just can't hold them they are too small mx and the old OM series were as small as I ever liked. this falls in that category.
I admit it seems heavy compared to an oly with 17 pancake, but that bit of heft will help with stabilising it. Too light a camera is not always good for holding steady, particularly once you add a longer lens
02-08-2012, 11:13 AM   #430
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
the retro fetish is here for a while i think, and the fuji I think will still be an excellent camera (though it is missing things I think would have been smart like SR and Focus peaking for MF lenses) it will in many ways be a step back in operation
I don't compare the K-01 to these 2 as they are more aimed at the enthusiast end of the market like the Nex 7 - which looks good on paper but is impossible to buy)
I think the K-01 looks very user freindly and I like designs that change the way we think. If we never accepted radical new designs we'd be walking around with glass plate cameras, or boxes like the kodak brownie, or barnett style RFs. all game changers in their time, but i bet a lot of RF users though the SLR was a fugly huge beast when it came out too. then they tried them and history changed the perception.
K-01 solves one of my biggest problems with mirrorless like the nex I just can't hold them they are too small mx and the old OM series were as small as I ever liked. this falls in that category.
I admit it seems heavy compared to an oly with 17 pancake, but that bit of heft will help with stabilising it. Too light a camera is not always good for holding steady, particularly once you add a longer lens
I don't say that OM-D is bad camera for m4/3 niche or X-Pro 1 is bad... X-Pro1 is PRO-LEVEL for Fuji system.

The paradox is that it's good cameras...BUT it's not MY WAY cameras.
02-08-2012, 11:31 AM   #431
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
I don't say that OM-D is bad camera for m4/3 niche or X-Pro 1 is bad... X-Pro1 is PRO-LEVEL for Fuji system.

The paradox is that it's good cameras...BUT it's not MY WAY cameras.
That is different. While i think i could be happy using a Fuji most of the time it is not my camera either (at least not at 3500 with 3 lenses)
Tha K-01 isn't my ideal but in many ways it's closer. and its a good price comparatively (I also can see the 40 xs kit dropping to $750 or so by the time i'll be ready later in the summer to be competitive with the oly/pana/sony/samsung in its price range... aside from a built in EVF (which i would like not a stand alone one - it need not be conventional even it could be a TLR style top mount one) and WR (not critical I have that on 2 cameras already) it seems to hit everything i want.
I'm in the process of planning a trip for sept or october so if i see nothing to change my mid i will probably get one before then (hope for an enthusiast variant at photokina won't help as i will likely already be on vacation )

It's that or I'll buy the new 50, the dal35 and a used DA 21 for the trip (cost should be similar)
02-08-2012, 01:21 PM   #432
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
Can't wait for Winder...

K-01
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #1,177 (+2,255) in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#31 (+40) in*Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras

XPro-1
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #95 (-33) in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#2 (Even) in Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras

The Pentax still trails by a margin, but gains ground from yesterday. I wish I could make book on this, this could get exciting if money were on the line.
It is going to be fun to watch.

As I said previously: I expect sales to fall until after CP+, but we will get to see what kind of push the OM-D makes as it goes on sale.

I was also going to track lens sales for new X-Mount and K-mount lenses, but Pentax does not have a single lens in the top 100 to track and they don't track anything outside of that. As of yesterday all 3 Fuji lenses where in the top 75.

We will see what kind of bump Olympus lenses get from the OM-D. The 45mm has been selling really well for them.

For a $1,700.00 range finder that has not even been reviewed yet, the XP-1 has had some very impressive sales.

I wonder if the guys who works for B&H & Adoram and answers questions on this forum could give us some sales data. I know they wont give actual numbers, but ranking would be nice. Even if it was just by system (K-mount, X-mount, M4/3).
02-08-2012, 03:24 PM   #433
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
For a $1,700.00 range finder that has not even been reviewed yet, the XP-1 has had some very impressive sales.
And I'm going to venture that the margins are substantially higher on the XPro or the OM-D as well.

It will be interesting, but I'm guessing not definitive without hard numbers. If Pentax sells 3 units it will be a rousing success, proof that the concept can work (and that's all they really wanted) and we march forward to more glorious successes.

Thom Hogan had an interesting take on the philosophy of targeting the entry level versus niche marketing that seems applicable:
QuoteQuote:
...let me ask this: why were all the mirrorless camera makers working so hard to target entry level users? At this point we've got the E-PM1, the GF3, the J1, and the C3—all of which clearly target the entry user—yet you could also say that the E-PL models, the GF2, the V1, and even the 5N all target the less sophisticated user. Did Nikon, Olympus, Panasonic, and Sony all miss the prediction of loss of the entry user to camera phones?

I suspect that the reason why we have so many entry-level mirrorless cameras is that the camera companies think that they can migrate the former compact camera entry-level user to become an entry-level mirrorless user. You know, as in "well, if they won't buy a Sony HX9V maybe they'll buy a NEX-C3." Oh, you noticed how hollow that rings, too? Another interpretation of that might be (tongue inserted in cheek) "here's something more sophisticated, flexible, and complex, but it's entry-level and comes in colors, so you'll like it."

One of the problems is that all the camera companies are trying to keep their existing businesses on life support while they try to figure out what you'd really buy... In Silicon Valley almost everyone believes one thing about products: if someone is going to cannibalize your sales, it ought to be yourself. Put another way: do unto yourself before others undo you. If you don't recognize that construct, it's Darwinism in action: survival of the fittest.

Last edited by junyo; 02-08-2012 at 08:04 PM. Reason: Typos, due to lack of proofreading
02-08-2012, 03:58 PM   #434
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
That's why I welcome K-01, because it's unusual camera from unusual designer. It's different.
The problem is that it has managed to be unusually different instead of just being different.
02-08-2012, 06:51 PM   #435
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
And I'm going to venture that the margins are substantially higher on the XPro or the OM-D as well.

It will be interesting, but I'm guessing not definitive without hard numbers. If Pentax sells 3 units it will be a rousing success, proof that the concept can work (and that's all they really wanted) and we mark forward to more glorious successes.

Thom Hogan had an interesting taking on the philosophy of targeting the entry level versus niche marketing that seems applicable:
I'm sure the margin is quite good on the Fuji. If Pentax had the vision they too could be enjoying high margins. There is no reason that Pentax could not have introduced an MX-D with the look of the OM-D and an APS-C sensor. A little retro styling and some vision and Pentax could have been the one getting the positive reviews.

I am expecting Fuji to bring out a retro-ILC like the OM-D. Fuji (Fujica) does not have any really attractive cameras from that era. Imagine if you had the OM-D body with the new Fuji sensor in it and the speed of the new Olympus AF?
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