Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-09-2012, 01:41 PM   #496
Veteran Member




Join Date: Oct 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 418
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I agree 100% with what you say about modern cameras in good light - they are all good. And yes to the differences in the fringes. But a couple of points to add:

The irony of camera design is that soccer moms and basketball dads are the most demanding users - the want good performance AUTOMATICALLY. The aren't aspiring photographers - they are simply documenting their lives and want a camera that will capture the basketball game, school play, and other dimly lit events (photographically speaking) with as little fuss as possible. They are at the performance fringe, with a kit lens and without the knowledge that photo enthusiasts have.

That's the reason that most stall at the entry-level dSLR and kit lens. It does a passable job in many of the situations that they find themselves in. Do they take pro quality photos? No, far from it. But their kid is relatively sharp and relatively in focus, and that's way better than their phone or P&S did. Most aren't willing to spend more money, more space in the van, and more time learning to get to the next level; they've got a soccer game to go to, then a birthday party, then...

That said, I think you're doing the K-01 a disservice by trying to fit it into that scenario, as I don't think that's who the camera's aimed at. The ISO may be there but the AF lags even an entry dSLR. As Pentax UK said, I really think the K-01 targets the artisan/designer crowd. The Etsy, Threadless, Zazzle crowd. Billyburg. Portland. Austin. People in the creative arts. People that have a personal style, that think about what they wear, that look in the mirror one last time before leaving. For many of them, photography may be a secondary or tertiary pursuit to whatever they are making. They take pictures for fun and creative inspiration. They shoot Lomos and have the Hipstamatic app on their iPhone. The K-01 is their camera. It's not a boring dSLR that every wanne-be pro and soccer mom has. They've thought about buying a used film Leica or admire a friend that has one.

Now only Pentax would hire me to market to this group, they'd have a home run on their hands. Or maybe more accurately, a goal, because this group watches more soccer (football)....

My $.02, non-refundable.
I could completely see that. But I'd wonder about the value of that market, since as I hang around with an unhealthly amount of hipsters, I witness first hand just how well the iPhone is the camera of choice, and realistically it's as much camera as many will use. Williamsburg and Bushwick, Fishtown Philly... it's all iPhones and analog among the portion of the skinny jeans set that doesn't call themselves photographers. I organized a glamour photography workshop in Midtown a couple of weeks ago and a dude showed up with an iPhone and detachable lenses, completely serious. Only camera he owns. The reason for iPhone's popularity has less to do with the quality of the output and more to do with the purpose of their photography, which is instant imagery; snap a pic, tweet/FB/tumblr it and move on. They're not trying to take a photograph; the picture as you said, is "a secondary or tertiary pursuit to whatever they are making". The camera is a means to an end, which is the documentation of proof of coolness. If the K-01, even with it's photographic shortcomings (from the POV of an enthusiast) had an on board communications suite- wifi and an email agent would do, but wireless broadband and a honest to god set of social media applets would be better- then it would be a monster in that crowd.

02-09-2012, 02:31 PM   #497
Veteran Member
westmill's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Stoke on Trent
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,146
While there are Photographers, there will always be those that insist on the best of everything.
Some things are simply Rudamentry, such as using the best lenses. Depending on the use of the camera it will be different things to different people.
Optical veiwfinders are another rudamentry aspect of being the best. Since the development of EVF it has made OVF not as nesersary as it once was.
Yes... im certainly old school, but I dont think the OVF will ever die out. For me, nothing can give the clarity of an OVF and EVF takes you another step
away from that remote uninvolved scenario.
02-09-2012, 02:42 PM   #498
Pentaxian
redrockcoulee's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Medicine Hat
Posts: 2,139
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I got some bad news for you

Kodak to shutter camera business
UPDATE 3-Kodak to shutter camera business | Reuters
forto me I use their film not their cameras. Think it also shows that some products a company makes interests some people and other products other people. How many of us bought a Pentax medical imagery machine? And how many who own a K5 would buy a K-01 or K-r or even 645D? But that is the point where people here including yourself have shown that not every product is for every person.

Portra 160 in 120 and TMax in various sizes. I shoot Fuji film does not mean I will buy their cameras but do borrow X100 and GX680. The loss of Acros would be a bigger lost. A lose of K mount would be even bigger. If the K-0x series are really good with video one might be in the future. A m4/3 probably not and if it was I would have many companies to choose from.

Will be watching your reviews if you do get your mitts on one due to video.
02-09-2012, 02:54 PM   #499
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 7,140
QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
...
Optical veiwfinders are another rudamentry aspect of being the best. Since the development of EVF it has made OVF not as nesersary as it once was.
I'm wondering if one day there will be "night vision" in the EVF to aid low light viewing.

02-09-2012, 03:06 PM   #500
Veteran Member




Join Date: Oct 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 418
QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I'm wondering if one day there will be "night vision" in the EVF to aid low light viewing.
There already is, lots of EVFs have auto gain that boosts the display in low light.
02-09-2012, 05:42 PM   #501
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
There already is, lots of EVFs have auto gain that boosts the display in low light.
Is it just gain or do they do some other things?

I saw that the E-M5 is providing some special feature for long exposures - I guess those scenarios would be tricky because you might not be able to get much out of the sensor even with high gain, so the real time aspect is lost. Not that OVFs are any better in complete darkness. Has anyone looked at those E-M5 features more closely?
02-09-2012, 05:57 PM   #502
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,847
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Frogfish Quote
Because of course the 550/5.6 will be sold to a new user base .... oh ! That's right ! It won't
Actually, I know wildlife a photographer who loves the K-5, but wont consider it because he needs longer glass. Yes. The 550mm will attract a segment of photographers who are currently not interested in Pentax. There are lot of people who have left the Pentax system because of the lack of long glass. It obviously was not made for the Asian toy camera market.

If this lens has fast/accurate AF and delivers good IQ then it will definitely attract a new type of photographer. Maybe it is difficult for you to understand how that works.
02-09-2012, 06:53 PM   #503
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,847
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
It's not cluelessness, it's laziness. Genuine innovation requires risk taking and leap of faithing and the occasional abject failure. Businesses follow the herd and try variations on other company's successful memes because it's safer and CYA for the decision makers when stuff goes wrong.

Yes. In good light at low to moderate ISO's I defy you to tell the difference between moderately sized prints from any of these cameras, or from an SLR from 5 years ago, or from a quality point and shoot. Virtually any quality camera is capable of taking excellent pictures to the extent of the photographer's ability. The differences are at the edges of the envelope, and the capability that the camera has to make the act of photography easier for the photographer at those fringes. Inherent in the idea of an ILC is a certain amount of hassle (because interchangeable lenses are a hassle, if someone invented a FF fixed lens camera with a f0.95 constant aperture 10-1000mm zoom that weighed less than a car I'd buy it and never touch an ILC again) in exchange for more capability. The capability to use a lens best suited for conditions, to use it under less than optimal lighting/focusing/operating conditions, to be able to configure the camera's controls to your liking. Other than the ability to change lenses, the K-01 is simply far less capable at the fringes than the other cameras, which is fine, it's in a different prie class. But compared to other cameras in it's class, it's not a slamdunk on price, or size, or features. Which is why my contention has been all along that it doesn't really offer a readily apparent value to the P&S upgrader (look at the number of sub $400 MILC systems in the Amazon top 100 now), or the enthusiast. Other than being polarizingly styled, it just seems to be in some vague middle ground to people not already invested in K mount.

You realize that you posted pictures of the camera with the accessory grip, right?

Update:
We have a new contender! Three cameras enter, one camera leaves!

Olympus OM-D E-M5 16 MP Live MOS Interchangeable Lens Camera with 3.0-Inch Tilting OLED Touchscreen and 12-50mm Lens (Black)
#1 in*Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras
OM-D kits/bodies also at #3, #4, #5, #10

Fujifilm X-Pro 1 16MP Digital Camera with APS-C X-Trans CMOS Sensor (Body Only)
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #119 (-14) in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#8 (-6 - Could that all be OM-D displacement?) in*Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras

I ranked the yellow kit yesterday, but I'll base the numbers off of the top ranked K-01 kit this morning in the interest of cheating on behalf of Pentax.
Pentax K-01 16MP APS-C CMOS Compact System Camera Kit with DA 40mm Lens (Black)
#2,826 (-1649 ) in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#67 (-36) in*Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras

Ouch. Rub some dirt on it and get back out there dude, it's just a flesh wound.

Pentax K-01 16MP APS-C CMOS Compact System Camera Kit with DA 40mm Lens (Yellow)
#2,976 in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#70 in Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras
Olympus is off to a hot start. 5 of the top 10 cameras on the list are OM-D cameras in different kit form/color. That is a pretty amazing start. You expect a strong bump right after an announcement and major show, but Olympus is kicking butt. Nobody has even seen if this new 4/3 sensor is really improved. Olympus might be the hottest selling camera of the three at the end of the year.

The black Q with kit lens is checking in at 48 ( almost 30 spots ahead of the K-01).

The Black and Yellow K-01 with 40mm Kit check in at 76 & 77. For a reference the E-P1 kit (has been discontinued for over a year) checks in at 79.

Fuji is holding at #9. Thoughts From My Camera

02-09-2012, 07:17 PM   #504
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 944
the new Olympus is only $100 more then the K-01 , its very tempting , even for me a pentexian with a lot of Pentax glass
02-09-2012, 07:28 PM   #505
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,213
QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
the new Olympus is only $100 more then the K-01 , its very tempting , even for me a pentexian with a lot of Pentax glass
As much as I like M43, I'm fairly confident that the K-01 sensor will be better than the Oly sensor. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot closer than many people think and the Oly will be great 95% of the time. It's just that 5% matters a lot sometimes.

In either case, they're likely to be very good image makers. Can't go wrong!
02-09-2012, 07:31 PM   #506
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,847
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
the new Olympus is only $100 more then the K-01 , its very tempting , even for me a pentexian with a lot of Pentax glass
If you can deal with the difference in perspective then the 31mm LTD and 77mm LTD would both be pretty awesome lenses on the new Olympus..... Think of it as a 2x tele-converter with some excellent IQ.
02-09-2012, 09:27 PM   #507
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 944
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
If you can deal with the difference in perspective then the 31mm LTD and 77mm LTD would both be pretty awesome lenses on the new Olympus..... Think of it as a 2x tele-converter with some excellent IQ.
I only shoot with wide lenses more specifically with my FA 20 mm on K-7 makes it 35 mm . I am sorry you will hear a lot about it from me as this new Olympus broke my heart . I really wanted a K1000-D really really did

but as Narc newson said

it not good to listen to the consumers (unless you are olympus) , oh well ...
02-09-2012, 10:06 PM   #508
Veteran Member




Join Date: Oct 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 418
QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Is it just gain or do they do some other things?

I saw that the E-M5 is providing some special feature for long exposures - I guess those scenarios would be tricky because you might not be able to get much out of the sensor even with high gain, so the real time aspect is lost. Not that OVFs are any better in complete darkness. Has anyone looked at those E-M5 features more closely?
For the most part it's just gain. This is one of the strengths of an EVF; if the camera's sensor has a reasonable shot at an exposure obviously you'd be able to see, since the view through the EVF is a feed from the sensor. Actually one of the features the Fuji has that I don't like is auto-gain when the hybrid VF is in EVF mode and the camera is in manual; on the NEX cameras you can turn this off and the gain moves with the exposure settings allowing you to expose via the EVF/overlaid histogram which is preferable I think.

The Oly is doing some special trick to simulate the output of long exposures, which is a completely different deal.
02-09-2012, 10:13 PM - 1 Like   #509
Veteran Member
anthony mazzeri's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Photos: Albums
Posts: 312
QuoteOriginally posted by redpigeons Quote
it not good to listen to the consumers (unless you are olympus) , oh well ...
Depends which consumers, the ones on internet forums discussing cameras, or the ones out there in the shops not discussing cameras.

The 'camera forum' consumers were saying the 2x crop factor blows.. Olympus didn't listen. These consumers said Nikon's even smaller 1" blows.. Nikon didn't listen.

So now Olympus has the biggest MILC share in Japan bigger than Sony's bigger sensor, and Nikon just broke the sales records in the UK.

These same consumers are now saying Newson's design and no-EVF blows. So I'll put my money on it being a runaway success then.
02-09-2012, 10:33 PM   #510
Veteran Member




Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 944
QuoteOriginally posted by anthony mazzeri Quote
Depends which consumers, the ones on internet forums discussing cameras, or the ones out there in the shops not discussing cameras.

The 'camera forum' consumers were saying the 2x crop factor blows.. Olympus didn't listen. These consumers said Nikon's even smaller 1" blows.. Nikon didn't listen.

So now Olympus has the biggest MILC share in Japan bigger than Sony's bigger sensor, and Nikon just broke the sales records in the UK.

These same consumers are now saying Newson's design and no-EVF blows. So I'll put my money on it being a runaway success then.
sadly your theory does not work with Pentax , I 've been here and with this brand long enough to know, Pentax will lose a few and at the end it will give the its fans what they want be it a FF or top of the line and gain some consumers back. (most likly BC of a new coll lenses and not a camera )

and again I like the K-01 design ok , for me no-VF meaning that most likely the camera is not unusable in a very bight sunny day . the Olympus with out a doubt out sell the K-01.
and if the OM-d micro 4/3 had to face a K1000-d CMOS and Pentax lenses it would not stand a chance
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, cameras, fuji, k-01, k01, legacy, lens, mirrorless, olympus, pentax, pentax k-01, support, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full size Fuji X-Pro high ISO images posted... JohnBee Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 12 02-05-2012 09:30 PM
Fuji EVIL - Pro Winder Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 14 10-12-2011 02:12 AM
Pentax PRO Feature that a Pro Photog couldn't find in CaNikon! HermanLee Pentax DSLR Discussion 16 05-03-2009 09:36 AM
street shots - Fuji 400 Pro Gooshin Pentax Film SLR Discussion 17 01-16-2009 06:02 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:55 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top