Pentax K-01 vs Fuji X-Pro 1 vs Olympus OM-D

ogl · 02-11-2012, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by Winder

Another post from someone who has no real numbers or information to provide.

Ignore this thread if it bothers you so much. You can't; can you?

It's some kind of paranoia IMO...

Can you ignore this thread?

illdefined · 02-11-2012, 11:38 AM

Amazon sales rank is just one measure, but its still a valid one and in the absence of others it's worth noting.

Just because diehard Pentax users understand the value of the K-Mount and the K-01 doesn't mean the general public does. Opposite in fact, especially when Pentax isn't flooding the press with shots of the K-01 and all the Limited lenses it was meant for attached. A camera's success is based on its system and it's marketing, Pentax certainly has the system, but where's the marketing?

Plenty of good, even great, cameras have been commercial failures. Pentax took a big risk with the design, and they aren't even hedging that bet by showing whats actually GOOD about the K-01. Its lenses.

TaoMaas · 02-11-2012, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by illdefined

Amazon sales rank is just one measure, but its still a valid one and in the absence of others it's worth noting.

Valid for what purpose? To see if your tastes match others? What does that have to do with whether the product is right for you or not? If folks are looking to "fit in", Pentax is probably not the right choice for them.

Winder · 02-11-2012, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

No...not as long as you refer to folks who aren't critical of the K-01 as "apologists". If you don't like being labeled...then don't do it to others.

You can call me what ever you want. I'm just asking that if you disagree that you provide some alternate information to support your opinion. Have some numbers, or a link to some sales information that we can look at. Provide something better than the Amazon sales ranking and you can call me what ever makes you feel good.

Winder · 02-11-2012, 11:57 AM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

Valid for what purpose? To see if your tastes match others? What does that have to do with whether the product is right for you or not? If folks are looking to "fit in", Pentax is probably not the right choice for them.

This thread has never been about what is right for you. It is about which company/camera is going to be a better success in the market. Which company is going in the right direction (being profitable and growing). Which company is making better decisions?

TaoMaas · 02-11-2012, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by Winder

You can call me what ever you want. I'm just asking that if you disagree that you provide some alternate information to support your opinion. Have some numbers, or a link to some sales information that we can look at. Provide something better than the Amazon sales ranking and you can call me what ever makes you feel good.

The numbers are what they are. If you're waiting for Pentax to be #1...and that's your definition of success..., you're going to be waiting a LONG time.

illdefined · 02-11-2012, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

Valid for what purpose? To see if your tastes match others? What does that have to do with whether the product is right for you or not? If folks are looking to "fit in", Pentax is probably not the right choice for them.

unfortunately, popularity means I can look forward to a brand staying in business, which means more development of my chosen system, continued support, and new things to put my lenses on in the future. if you're aim is solely to "be different", then you can find a Kodak film camera pretty cheap these days..

no one expects Pentax to be #1, but we do expect them to be profitable and around for many years.

TaoMaas · 02-11-2012, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by illdefined

no one expects Pentax to be #1, but we do expect them to be profitable and around for many years.

Does Amazon tell you that? How does the numbers for the K-01 compare to the numbers for any other Pentax offering?

Winder · 02-11-2012, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

The numbers are what they are. If you're waiting for Pentax to be #1...and that's your definition of success..., you're going to be waiting a LONG time.

I'm not. I am comparing the three most recent entrants to the mirror-less world and asking which one will do a better job of meeting the needs of the market?

Pentax has the price advantage. A significant one.
Pentax has the most established system which people insist is a major advantage.
Pentax should be more appeal to a larger market. It should sell very well on Amazon which caters to the consumer grade photographer.
Pentax hires a big name designer to set it apart from the competition and appeal to this group.
Pentax has a proven 16MP Sony sensor.

I think it is interesting that sales on Amazon are as weak as they are.

Fuji has been on the sidelines for the past few years and has no legacy system to support it.
Fuji is 3x the price when you factor in the lens.
Fuji is a range finder camera that really only appeals to a small percentage of photographers (or does it)?

Olympus is somewhere in the middle on all of these factors (price, system support, EVF) but sensor is a big question.

TaoMaas · 02-11-2012, 12:21 PM

Maybe you're surprised by this...I'm not. In the 4 decades that I've been using Pentax products, they've never been the popular choice. I didn't start using Pentax to be different. I used them because of their value.

illdefined · 02-11-2012, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

Does Amazon tell you that? How does the numbers for the K-01 compare to the numbers for any other Pentax offering?

sales numbers do tell us that.

Amazon are sales numbers, not all of them, but a pretty major one. I remember when the color K-x models scored highly on that chart and that was indicative of something. something important, because the success of that particular model and marketing move definitely impacted Pentax as a brand and its continuing fate.

Winder · 02-11-2012, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

Does Amazon tell you that? How does the numbers for the K-01 compare to the numbers for any other Pentax offering?

The K-5 is #37 in sales ranking for DSLRs which is pretty good given Pentax marketing.
The K-5 is #414 in Camera & Photo

The K-01 is classified as a compact system camera and not in the top 100.
The K-01 is #4,935 in Camera & Photo

Considering MOST cameras get a sales bump right after the announcement and trade show I think that is pretty awful.

For some individuals the K-01 will be a great camera, but that does not mean it will be a success in the larger market.

TaoMaas · 02-11-2012, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Winder

For some individuals the K-01 will be a great camera, but that does not mean it will be a success in the larger market.

I don't care about the larger market. I care whether the K-01 will be a great camera. Actually, I don't even care if it's a great camera. I only care about whether it's a step in the right direction. Personally, I think it is and I think it points to innovative thinking and greater things coming from Pentax...Amazon be damned.

Winder · 02-11-2012, 12:31 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

Maybe you're surprised by this...I'm not. In the 4 decades that I've been using Pentax products, they've never been the popular choice. I didn't start using Pentax to be different. I used them because of their value.

Why don't more people see that value? If lots of people recognized that value then would sales not reflect that? Is that value actually there? What numbers can you give me to quantify this value? Value is a vague term.

I used the Pentax 67II for almost 5 years before going with the Contax 645. I want to see Pentax return to the days where professionals recognized the name. Forcing one of the best lens designers in the industry and bringing out cameras like the Q and K-01 are not a step in the right direction in my opinion.

Winder · 02-11-2012, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by TaoMaas

I don't care about the larger market. I care whether the K-01 will be a great camera. Actually, I don't even care if it's a great camera. I only care about whether it's a step in the right direction. Personally, I think it is and I think it points to innovative thinking and greater things coming from Pentax...Amazon be damned.

If you are not concerned with how the K-01 is perceived by the larger market then you should have no interest in this thread, because that is what it is about.

Pentax may end up falling to the roll of niche camera company, but it better find a strong niche. Not a lot of money for R&D there unless they go way up the price scale and try to become like Leica. Companies that sell small volumes of product have to compensate for it with higher prices. People are complaining about the cost of the Fuji, but it is a niche product.

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02-11-2012, 11:27 AM	#541
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Winder Another post from someone who has no real numbers or information to provide. Ignore this thread if it bothers you so much. You can't; can you? It's some kind of paranoia IMO... Can you ignore this thread?

02-11-2012, 11:38 AM	#542
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Amazon sales rank is just one measure, but its still a valid one and in the absence of others it's worth noting. Just because diehard Pentax users understand the value of the K-Mount and the K-01 doesn't mean the general public does. Opposite in fact, especially when Pentax isn't flooding the press with shots of the K-01 and all the Limited lenses it was meant for attached. A camera's success is based on its system and it's marketing, Pentax certainly has the system, but where's the marketing? Plenty of good, even great, cameras have been commercial failures. Pentax took a big risk with the design, and they aren't even hedging that bet by showing whats actually GOOD about the K-01. Its lenses.

02-11-2012, 11:51 AM	#543
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by illdefined Amazon sales rank is just one measure, but its still a valid one and in the absence of others it's worth noting. Valid for what purpose? To see if your tastes match others? What does that have to do with whether the product is right for you or not? If folks are looking to "fit in", Pentax is probably not the right choice for them.

02-11-2012, 11:52 AM	#544
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by TaoMaas No...not as long as you refer to folks who aren't critical of the K-01 as "apologists". If you don't like being labeled...then don't do it to others. You can call me what ever you want. I'm just asking that if you disagree that you provide some alternate information to support your opinion. Have some numbers, or a link to some sales information that we can look at. Provide something better than the Amazon sales ranking and you can call me what ever makes you feel good.

02-11-2012, 11:57 AM	#545
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by TaoMaas Valid for what purpose? To see if your tastes match others? What does that have to do with whether the product is right for you or not? If folks are looking to "fit in", Pentax is probably not the right choice for them. This thread has never been about what is right for you. It is about which company/camera is going to be a better success in the market. Which company is going in the right direction (being profitable and growing). Which company is making better decisions?

02-11-2012, 12:03 PM	#546
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by Winder You can call me what ever you want. I'm just asking that if you disagree that you provide some alternate information to support your opinion. Have some numbers, or a link to some sales information that we can look at. Provide something better than the Amazon sales ranking and you can call me what ever makes you feel good. The numbers are what they are. If you're waiting for Pentax to be #1...and that's your definition of success..., you're going to be waiting a LONG time.

02-11-2012, 12:09 PM	#547
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by TaoMaas Valid for what purpose? To see if your tastes match others? What does that have to do with whether the product is right for you or not? If folks are looking to "fit in", Pentax is probably not the right choice for them. unfortunately, popularity means I can look forward to a brand staying in business, which means more development of my chosen system, continued support, and new things to put my lenses on in the future. if you're aim is solely to "be different", then you can find a Kodak film camera pretty cheap these days.. no one expects Pentax to be #1, but we do expect them to be profitable and around for many years.

02-11-2012, 12:15 PM	#548
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by illdefined no one expects Pentax to be #1, but we do expect them to be profitable and around for many years. Does Amazon tell you that? How does the numbers for the K-01 compare to the numbers for any other Pentax offering?

02-11-2012, 12:16 PM	#549
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by TaoMaas The numbers are what they are. If you're waiting for Pentax to be #1...and that's your definition of success..., you're going to be waiting a LONG time. I'm not. I am comparing the three most recent entrants to the mirror-less world and asking which one will do a better job of meeting the needs of the market? Pentax has the price advantage. A significant one. Pentax has the most established system which people insist is a major advantage. Pentax should be more appeal to a larger market. It should sell very well on Amazon which caters to the consumer grade photographer. Pentax hires a big name designer to set it apart from the competition and appeal to this group. Pentax has a proven 16MP Sony sensor. I think it is interesting that sales on Amazon are as weak as they are. Fuji has been on the sidelines for the past few years and has no legacy system to support it. Fuji is 3x the price when you factor in the lens. Fuji is a range finder camera that really only appeals to a small percentage of photographers (or does it)? Olympus is somewhere in the middle on all of these factors (price, system support, EVF) but sensor is a big question.

02-11-2012, 12:21 PM	#550
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Maybe you're surprised by this...I'm not. In the 4 decades that I've been using Pentax products, they've never been the popular choice. I didn't start using Pentax to be different. I used them because of their value.

02-11-2012, 12:21 PM	#551
illdefined Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 929	Originally posted by TaoMaas Does Amazon tell you that? How does the numbers for the K-01 compare to the numbers for any other Pentax offering? sales numbers do tell us that. Amazon are sales numbers, not all of them, but a pretty major one. I remember when the color K-x models scored highly on that chart and that was indicative of something. something important, because the success of that particular model and marketing move definitely impacted Pentax as a brand and its continuing fate.

02-11-2012, 12:23 PM	#552
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by TaoMaas Does Amazon tell you that? How does the numbers for the K-01 compare to the numbers for any other Pentax offering? The K-5 is #37 in sales ranking for DSLRs which is pretty good given Pentax marketing. The K-5 is #414 in Camera & Photo The K-01 is classified as a compact system camera and not in the top 100. The K-01 is #4,935 in Camera & Photo Considering MOST cameras get a sales bump right after the announcement and trade show I think that is pretty awful. For some individuals the K-01 will be a great camera, but that does not mean it will be a success in the larger market.

02-11-2012, 12:28 PM	#553
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by Winder For some individuals the K-01 will be a great camera, but that does not mean it will be a success in the larger market. I don't care about the larger market. I care whether the K-01 will be a great camera. Actually, I don't even care if it's a great camera. I only care about whether it's a step in the right direction. Personally, I think it is and I think it points to innovative thinking and greater things coming from Pentax...Amazon be damned.

02-11-2012, 12:31 PM	#554
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by TaoMaas Maybe you're surprised by this...I'm not. In the 4 decades that I've been using Pentax products, they've never been the popular choice. I didn't start using Pentax to be different. I used them because of their value. Why don't more people see that value? If lots of people recognized that value then would sales not reflect that? Is that value actually there? What numbers can you give me to quantify this value? Value is a vague term. I used the Pentax 67II for almost 5 years before going with the Contax 645. I want to see Pentax return to the days where professionals recognized the name. Forcing one of the best lens designers in the industry and bringing out cameras like the Q and K-01 are not a step in the right direction in my opinion.

02-11-2012, 12:36 PM	#555
Winder Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 6,617 Original Poster	Originally posted by TaoMaas I don't care about the larger market. I care whether the K-01 will be a great camera. Actually, I don't even care if it's a great camera. I only care about whether it's a step in the right direction. Personally, I think it is and I think it points to innovative thinking and greater things coming from Pentax...Amazon be damned. If you are not concerned with how the K-01 is perceived by the larger market then you should have no interest in this thread, because that is what it is about. Pentax may end up falling to the roll of niche camera company, but it better find a strong niche. Not a lot of money for R&D there unless they go way up the price scale and try to become like Leica. Companies that sell small volumes of product have to compensate for it with higher prices. People are complaining about the cost of the Fuji, but it is a niche product.