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02-12-2012, 04:45 AM   #586
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FWIW, Fuji and Olympus are both brands that I have a lot of respect for. Having said that, I've come to really like the design of the K-01 -- suddenly the X-Pro 1 and OM-D seem unimaginative. No, it doesn't look like something you found in your uncle's garage: it has a playful yet robust character all of its own.

As for the talk about Amazon pre-sales, isn't that a bit of a red herring? Sure, we'd all be delighted if Pentax released a camera that the masses were flocking to buy before it had been reviewed, but I would suggest that most people that come to the Pentax brand do so after a serious consideration of the pros and cons of other options. Be patient, wait for the reviews to come out, and let's see how these cameras are faring after a few months on the shelves.

02-12-2012, 04:55 AM - 1 Like   #587
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Ha-ha...My brother bought the same stuff...Last year before trip in Thailand...
Let's us both buy Yellow K-01
02-12-2012, 08:39 AM   #588
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
...again, where does this leave Pentax? empirically, they have everything need they need to be successful. complete and respected system, product and image quality, but they don't have the marketing.
I totally agree with this. Pentax doesn't have a product problem so much as they have a marketing problem.
02-12-2012, 08:57 AM   #589
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
There is no reason that Pentax could not be where Olympus or Fuji is right now.
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I kinda suspect that Olympus and Fuji would both LOVE to be where Pentax is because Pentax is still offering a full line of digital cameras...from P&S to mirrorless to DSLR...while Olympus and Fuji are pinning their hopes on a niche market.

02-12-2012, 09:48 AM   #590
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I kinda suspect that Olympus and Fuji would both LOVE to be where Pentax is because Pentax is still offering a full line of digital cameras...from P&S to mirrorless to DSLR...while Olympus and Fuji are pinning their hopes on a niche market.
From Q and P&S to Digital Medium Format
02-12-2012, 09:57 AM   #591
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
From Q and P&S to Digital Medium Format
You're right! I forgot about the 645! Fuji used to be a big player in medium format during the film days. I suspect they'd like to be like Pentax and have some of that prestige back.
02-12-2012, 10:55 AM   #592
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QuoteOriginally posted by DirkG Quote
Let's say that the 'entry level enthusiast' is someone upgrading from compact to APS-C, without going all that way to DSLR. Then there are currently three choices for a mirrorless APS-C:
- one system, Nex, that models itself on the looks of a compact, with no special design features to speak of,
- one system, Fuji, that models itself on the looks of a rangefinder, with a retro design twist
- one system, Pentax, that models itself on the looks of a DSLR, with a modernist design twist.

This is a clear USP for Pentax, and it could well be successful. For this targeted audience, the Nex resembles a compact too much to be attractive, and the K-01 has an edge over the X-Pro1 in the sense that it more easily allows for a later upgrade to DSLR: for enthusiasts who see their K-01 as a possible step to DSLR, investing in K-mount lenses for K-01 is a safe approach, given that the lenses could also be used on a later DSLR (but if they stay with K-01, the investment will not be lost).
A Simple compact like the Ko1 has the edge over fuji XPRO 1 ? The Xpro 1 is a pro camera. The people that buy the X1 will buy it because they can use it without SLR. Talk about a different league.
The nex at least has an EVF !
02-12-2012, 10:55 AM   #593
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QuoteOriginally posted by illdefined Quote
you're right, it is too early to see Ricoh's approach to distribution, but make no mistake, hiring a bigshot industrial designer (with no previous camera experience) for the K-01 was a *marketing* decision, not a product one.

so was bombarding the media with press shots of the yellow model without any pictures with the Limited Lenses that proves mirrorless-K makes sense.
hired by Hoya not Ricoh. in 2010. This is a hoya legacy product and not indicative of ricoh's direction. they haven't owned the company long enough for their direction to have even come close to having an impact. they green lighted a bunch of lenses Hoya had sitting on the shelf. released a camera delayed due to natural disasters last year and set out to hire back fired engineers and did some reorganization putting the Ricoh camera division under pentax control.
but it makes more sense to slam the release as what rico will do in future doesn't it.
For ricoh there was low cost to getting this to market (R&D for it was on Hoya's tab) It isn't aimed at a forum going tech savvy public Sales will probably be better in countries where there is a B&M presence. Oh yeah your in the US well until the US distribution mess is cleaned up it may suck at sales in the US, not the end of the world the US is no longer a mandatory market for success. As long as it meets the targets it needs to for Ricoh whether or not it's top ten amazon or not is irrelevant. I would think there will be some concerted efforts to get back in B&M in the US coming though.
And i would also think that the serious enthusiast mirrorless pentax is under development
Comparing what will be the bottom of the category to what is the top of category models from other makes is about as relevant as comparing a holga and a hassleblad 503. both shoot 6x6 on 120 film but that's about as far as it goes

02-12-2012, 12:11 PM   #594
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
A Simple compact like the Ko1 has the edge over fuji XPRO 1 ? The Xpro 1 is a pro camera. The people that buy the X1 will buy it because they can use it without SLR. Talk about a different league.
The nex at least has an EVF !
But Dirk said for entry level enthusiast A pro camera may not have any advantage to them. Entry level buyers are most likely not choosing between Nikon 7000 and D4 either. It is not necessary the best camera but the best camera for that person that counts. Or the best camera for your needs may not be the best one for mine either.
02-12-2012, 01:20 PM   #595
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QuoteOriginally posted by DirkG Quote
Then there are currently three choices for a mirrorless APS-C:
You forgot a fourth one: Samsung NX. Their bodies have been styled both as SLRs and as compacts. They have a small but competent lens lineup. They are going to get third party lens support too. And there was a rumor that they were planning to add IS to their bodies in future models.

QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
I kinda suspect that Olympus and Fuji would both LOVE to be where Pentax is because Pentax is still offering a full line of digital cameras...from P&S to mirrorless to DSLR...while Olympus and Fuji are pinning their hopes on a niche market.
A Jack of all trades is a master of none.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
hired by Hoya not Ricoh. in 2010. This is a hoya legacy product and not indicative of ricoh's direction. they haven't owned the company long enough for their direction to have even come close to having an impact. they green lighted a bunch of lenses Hoya had sitting on the shelf. released a camera delayed due to natural disasters last year and set out to hire back fired engineers and did some reorganization putting the Ricoh camera division under pentax control.
I hope this is indeed the case and future releases will make more sense.
02-12-2012, 01:39 PM   #596
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QuoteOriginally posted by redrockcoulee Quote
But Dirk said for entry level enthusiast A pro camera may not have any advantage to them. Entry level buyers are most likely not choosing between Nikon 7000 and D4 either. It is not necessary the best camera but the best camera for that person that counts. Or the best camera for your needs may not be the best one for mine either.
True.... Sorry
02-12-2012, 02:08 PM   #597
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think a Fuji with a K-mount adapter is a better option for people who have K-mount glass. I think the Fuji with an M-mount adapter is a better option for people with Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander glass.

If the K-01 AF is super fast and accurate then I think the Pentax has a chance, but AF has never been a strong point of Pentax. IQ from Pentax has always been very good, but Fuji's APS-C cameras have also had very strong IQ and an occult following among some wedding photographers for their skin tones and DR. Initial reports from field testers is that the Fuji IQ is very good. Better than Nikon D3 good.

The people who really care about legacy lens support are the people who own a lot of K-mount glass, and thus wont be buying any new lenses anyway. They represent a dead income stream for Pentax. Pentax has to attract new customers or introduce new lenses that are very attractive to their existing base. I don't see Pentax doing either of those. The lens road map a disappointment. Not a single DFA lens. Not a single fast prime. For 7 years Pentax has been working on the 1.4X TC. After 7 years of R&D it had better be the damn TC to ever grace the planet earth.
I do not agree. Those with large amounts of legacy glass are waiting for Pentax to put out a camera, IMO preferably in aK-5 body, but designed control wise moe like an an LX, with FF. It must be able to let people use their legacy glass the way it was designed. Maybe come out with a camera only version to keep cost down, and see how they fly.
02-12-2012, 02:39 PM   #598
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
You forgot a fourth one: Samsung NX. Their bodies have been styled both as SLRs and as compacts. They have a small but competent lens lineup.
Indeed! Thank you for pointing that out.
02-12-2012, 03:29 PM   #599
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QuoteOriginally posted by valarie Quote
I do not agree. Those with large amounts of legacy glass are waiting for Pentax to put out a camera, IMO preferably in aK-5 body, but designed control wise moe like an an LX, with FF. It must be able to let people use their legacy glass the way it was designed. Maybe come out with a camera only version to keep cost down, and see how they fly.
But Pentax has +/-4% of the market world wide. How many of those people will invest in a full frame camera? If only 4% of the market is sitting on legacy glass is that number enough to justify giving up the advantages of a new mount? Olympus has passed Pentax in only a few years after focusing on m4/3. There is a very good chance that sales of X-mount will exceed K-mount sales in a year or two. Remember Fuji has other (less expensive) bodies planed by the end of the year. Fuji is going to be very strong with its innovative sensor technology and designs.

I agree that an LX or MX type body from Pentax would sell really well, but I think a new mount would be better for Pentax for the mirrorless line. Obviously people who have a lot of glass want to see it in K-mount, but the market share of K-mount is almost irrelevant. Olympus actually had more market share with 4/3 when it moved to M4/3 than Pentax does now. Companies have abandoned mounts with more market share than Pentax has right now.
02-12-2012, 11:01 PM   #600
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
But Pentax has +/-4% of the market world wide. How many of those people will invest in a full frame camera? If only 4% of the market is sitting on legacy glass is that number enough to justify giving up the advantages of a new mount?
Mirrorless cameras are 45% of Japanese market. Pentax will make FF mirrorless camera.
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