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02-14-2012, 03:59 AM   #631
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
That is correct, however you were saying the statement "Well, the 9 fps has no auto focus, right?" was wrong. It's fairly clear that the guy meant continuous autofocus...
Then he should have referred to 4.2 fps. Or did he meant to criticize AF-S, in which case he did indeed mean AF-S? Sounds like apples and oranges to talk about AF-C by commenting about AF-S.

02-14-2012, 04:05 AM - 1 Like   #632
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Wrong. It's 9fps with AF-S and 4.2 fps with AF-C. Source.
What is the difference from what I said? I was just trying to figure out a situation where 9 fps would be useful without auto focus tracking going on in the middle. If you are taking photos of a static object, do you really need 9 fps? If you are at your kid's football game, would 9 fps in AF-S be helpful, or would you end up in AF-C with only 4-ish fps?

When I think of fast frames per second, I think of rapid AF-C to accompany it (read: upper end Canon cameras), otherwise it is just a useless number to draw people in (like iso 52,000 on the K5).
02-14-2012, 09:14 AM   #633
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tonto Quote
It wil be VERY interesting once magazines/photo gear websites start reviewing the K-01 particulary in group tests- People love a giant killer
The video fuctions are going to be huge with this. Think about it, this is 'The' digital input device for the family home.
What would you have one of your kids hold, a fiddly looking NEX, complicated looking SLR, sophisticated looking Oly or Fuji OR the Solid, Simple Pentax that you can hold with a Zoom lens? AND the price is in HD camcorder territory, it just needs to be marketed - although word of mouth travels fast in parenting circles.
This is what kind of market we are talking about, more and more families are shooting video but they want THE SAME device for photos and they want amazing quality.
The photos will sell the camera. So how many families do you think there are?
Panasonic is kicking butt with the HD video crowd already and they have really strong brand awareness in this segment. They offer some nice HD specialty features like power zoom.

The DPR Review of the Panasonic GX1 is up and it holds its own against the Canon 7D when it comes to IQ and noise. 7D does not pull away until about 3200, but for the group you are talking about they will be using flash and auto 90+% of the time. The entry level crowd does not understand "high ISO" so I'm not sure how well that plays with them. Hell, I had a lady with a Nikon D700 tell me she always used "Action Mode". I was trying to tell her how to turn off the AF-assist light since it was causing a problem for others in the group. She had no idea what the light was for or how to turn it off.

The average entry level buyer does not know the difference between APS-C and 4/3 sensors. 16MP is 16MP to 90% of these people.
02-14-2012, 11:15 AM   #634
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Well, dpreview posted their GX1 review. If this is the same sensor as in the E-M5 I think I will be VERY happy. Here is ISO 3200 (raw):



02-14-2012, 11:33 AM   #635
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Well, dpreview posted their GX1 review. If this is the same sensor as in the E-M5 I think I will be VERY happy. Here is ISO 3200 (raw):
don't judge the hair as noise thing for the K-5, a lot of that is the old lens DPR uses (FA 50 I believe). If you want to judge read noise look at a dark spot, here I posted these last night on another thread:
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02-14-2012, 11:50 AM   #636
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Sure, the visible noise is less, but the detail is basically mush on the K-5, whether it be due to a crap lens (thought the FA 50 was very good?) or excessive noise reduction application. Has some other site done the GX1 where we can compare it with other cameras?
02-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #637
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Sure, the visible noise is less, but the detail is basically mush on the K-5, whether it be due to a crap lens (thought the FA 50 was very good?) or excessive noise reduction application. Has some other site done the GX1 where we can compare it with other cameras?
One thing about noise - they can artificially sharpen an image.

QuoteQuote:
Our perception of sharpness depends to a large extent on how much detail an image contains. Frequently an image with moderately coarse but sharp grain (or crisp digital noise) can appear as sharp or even sharper than a fine-grained image. This is why high-acutance film developers such as Rodinal have historically been preferred by some. They made grain somewhat bigger, but gave it higher acutance and therefore aided in creating the appearance of a sharper image.
I didn't want to link Luminous Landscape where I quoted that from since I saw a better example somewhere else recently, but I have that bookmarked at home.

Side note - color noise is often much more annoying than luminance noise. The k-5 excels in that aspect.
02-14-2012, 12:11 PM   #638
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Sure, the visible noise is less, but the detail is basically mush on the K-5, whether it be due to a crap lens (thought the FA 50 was very good?) or excessive noise reduction application. Has some other site done the GX1 where we can compare it with other cameras?
just saying, try another crop in the middle of the scene and you'll see what I mean. I don't know of any NR that gets heavier as it gets toward the edge. The FA 50 is well-regarded I just think they have a bad copy. If I remember correctly DPR Pentax Forum members were making a fuss about it in the past..

think it's too soon for other sites, but you might want to compare with the G3, RAW should be pretty much the same. Its the JPEG processing Panasonic improved on, they did a really good job with the same data.

02-14-2012, 12:24 PM   #639
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You are right, it does look sharper towards the middle, but I would still argue that the GX1 holds onto more detail (like the "wrinkles" in whatever these things are):



The K-5 definitely has less noise, but I am quite impressed with how much useful detail remains on the GX1 shot. I would probably be happy with an ISO 6400 8x10 from it.
02-14-2012, 12:36 PM   #640
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Just for fun I downloaded the ISO 6400 jpeg (no raw support here) and here is a 100% crop from a quick tweak. I think this would make for a passable 8x10...



And resulting image:


No D3 for sure, but more than I expected from 4/3.
02-14-2012, 12:38 PM   #641
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
You are right, it does look sharper towards the middle, but I would still argue that the GX1 holds onto more detail (like the "wrinkles" in whatever these things are):


The K-5 definitely has less noise, but I am quite impressed with how much useful detail remains on the GX1 shot. I would probably be happy with an ISO 6400 8x10 from it.
no argument there, but again unless Pentax is also using NR at ISO 100, it's a lens thing. It'd be a very different story with a 43 Limited or even the new DA 35
02-14-2012, 12:38 PM   #642
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Yes Olympus four thirds always produce very very sharp detailed prints.
They genraly lose out on high ISO because of small pixel size, but later
developments has seen a good improvment here.
Four thirds, from my experiance is amazing for prints upto 13 x 19".
The latest incarnations i expect to be much better.
You only really lose out when printed really big because of the smaller sensor size.
APSC has the clear edge here just as full frame has the edge on apsc.
For those not needing huge prints, quality is just not an issue in my book.
02-14-2012, 12:42 PM   #643
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The sensor technology advanced at such a pace that often a new sensor of a certain size nearly wipes the floor with bigger sensors of previous generation. Like the K-5 sensor seemed to measurbate better than earlier FF sensors in other aspects than high ISO. Now a fresh µ4/3 sensor competes very well (and perhaps even "wins") the great APS-C sensor.

It'll be very interesting to see where we're in some years. And also, what will a FF sensor of today's best technology be capable of.
02-14-2012, 12:44 PM   #644
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Just for fun I downloaded the ISO 6400 jpeg (no raw support here) and here is a 100% crop from a quick tweak. I think this would make for a passable 8x10...

And resulting image:
yeah Panasonic really nailed the JPEG NR processing with this cam, though I think you went the wrong way with it, it'd greatly benefit from less color not more (reducing the chroma noise). This cam could really shine in monochrome.

Last edited by illdefined; 02-14-2012 at 12:50 PM.
02-14-2012, 12:48 PM   #645
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I was basically trying to tweak it as I would a family snapshot or something that I wanted a print of. I agree that desaturation might work better though.

Just did an A4 print from the file, and while there is visible noise in the greyscale part when looking closely, it looks perfectly nice overall at normal viewing distance. Color me amazed.
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