Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
02-24-2012, 05:18 AM   #691
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,253
QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
Since the K-01 came out, I've learned that:
- People serious enough about pictures to drop a grand on a camera really don't care about cameras
- But also really value the worth of a large lens library
- But not too large, which is why they hate adapters
- ...and viewfinders. Viewfinders are dusty relics used only by old men and stupid people.
- Unless you need one, in which case you can add a hunking big screen via the HDMI port
- Which is cool because all these non-photographer expensive camera buying people have been dying to get their hands on bigger non-professional cameras
- But not too big, because that would be silly, And definitely not smaller.
- The most important thing is make the camera in wacky colors - it's "different" and "unique"
- And also more cost effective than R&D on actual camera features; because colored plastic is cheap, talented engineers, not so much.
- Also, we should have unshakable faith that Pentax knows what it's doing and can never make a misstep; I mean, you don't get a tiny marketshare and your company passed around like a bad penny by not knowing what you're doing, amiright?
Small amount of exaggeration going on in your "quotes?"

Just to clarify for you, I think that no one knows what the future of the K-01 is, but the fact that it is not liked by the Pentax Forum faithful does not mean that it will not be a broad seller. The actual street price will stabilize pretty quickly around 600 dollars, which is quite a bit less than a grand. The lack of a viewfinder (at least as an add on) is widely felt by most to be a deficiency of this camera. I wouldn't argue with that, but there are a group of people that probably don't really care about composing on an LCD screen.

The number of people who want to purchase a camera like the K-01 and then adapt old Leica glass to it is really small. People who buy it will want auto focus without messing with adapters. The Sony solution (NEX 7 plus 300 dollar adapter) costs nearly twice the K01's starting price. I personally have no desire (a) to manual focus or (b) to adapt old glass. Am I in the minority or majority? Well, looking at the interwebs as a whole, I would say majority, but who knows?

No one knows what the future of the K-01 is, but my guess is the opposite of yours. I think it will sell well and in particular, I think it sends a strong message that Pentax will continue making new lenses for the K mount for a long time to come.

02-24-2012, 07:54 AM   #692
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,801
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Hey Winder, where's your next update? I just checked out Amazon...

Amazon.com Hot New Releases: The best-selling new & future releases in Compact System Cameras

Hot New Releases in Compact System Cameras
About Hot New Releases in Compact System Cameras
These lists, updated hourly, contain bestselling items.

1. Olympus OM-D
2. Olympus OM-D
3. Olympus OM-D
4. Olympus OM-D
5. Nikon V1
6. Fuji X-Pro1
7. Pentax K-01
8. Olympus OM-D
9. Panasonic GX1
10. Pentax K-01
11. Canon G1X
12. Pentax K-01
13. Replay XD
14. Pentax K-01
15. Sony NEX-7
16. Sony NEX-7
17. Fuji Finepix S3200
18. Panasonic GX1
19. Sony NEX-7
20. Olympus Pen E-P3

What conclusions do you want to draw from this?
When I click on the K-01 on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/Pentax-K-01-Compact-Body-Black/dp/B0076396OA/ref=zg_bs_3109924011_82
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #3,921 in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#82 in Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras ---------- This is the ranking I see.

The Fuji is still listed as notify only as Amazon has sold out of its first expected shipment and is no longer taking orders.
Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #2,105 in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
#51 in Electronics > Camera & Photo > Digital Cameras > Compact System Cameras

Olympus is coming in at #4, 10, 14, & 19.

Your list is only for newly released cameras which shows the Pentax as the worst performing of the 3. You have not been able to order the Fuji XP1 for 2 weeks now, but its initial sales were strong enough to keep it in the top ten on your list.

If we combine all of the Pentax body options they might be doing better than the unavailable Fuji, but I doubt it. The yellow body is listed as Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #11,767 in Camera & Photo (See Top 100 in Camera & Photo)
Date first available at Amazon.com: February 2, 2012

#11,767 is an amazingly weak number for a "hot, new designer camera".

The top selling Pentax K-01 is a body only at a respectable #82 in the top 100 compact system camera ranking (#3,921 in Camera & Photo). The fact that the top selling K-01 is a body only tells me existing K-mount owners are the prime buyers of this camera. This is a camera that appeals mainly to the small existing user base.

The OM-D is selling more bodies with kit lenses which mean either the new kit lens is really good, or they are attracting a lot of new users who don't already own M4/3 glass. The kit lens looks pretty slow to me, so I am not sure I would buy it even as a new users.

Every Fuji XP1 sold = new market share for Fuji. There are no existing users.
02-24-2012, 08:01 AM   #693
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 443
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Hey Winder, where's your next update? I just checked out Amazon...

Amazon.com Hot New Releases: The best-selling new & future releases in Compact System Cameras

Hot New Releases in Compact System Cameras
About Hot New Releases in Compact System Cameras
These lists, updated hourly, contain bestselling items.

1. Olympus OM-D
2. Olympus OM-D
3. Olympus OM-D
4. Olympus OM-D
5. Nikon V1
6. Fuji X-Pro1
7. Pentax K-01
8. Olympus OM-D
9. Panasonic GX1
10. Pentax K-01
11. Canon G1X
12. Pentax K-01
13. Replay XD
14. Pentax K-01
15. Sony NEX-7
16. Sony NEX-7
17. Fuji Finepix S3200
18. Panasonic GX1
19. Sony NEX-7
20. Olympus Pen E-P3

What conclusions do you want to draw from this?

That the OM-D (E-M5) is a hot pre-order camera. That the K-01 is doing all right with pre-orders.

I was at my local camera store yesterday and was talking about pre-release camera orders. They are not a Pentax, Panasonic or Sony delaer. They have a handfull (less than 5) or E-M5 orders, about a dozen X-pro1 orders. The big one is the Nikon D800 where they have over 30 pre-release orders.

Dave
02-24-2012, 08:32 AM   #694
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by DaveBlack Quote
That the OM-D (E-M5) is a hot pre-order camera. That the K-01 is doing all right with pre-orders.

I was at my local camera store yesterday and was talking about pre-release camera orders. They are not a Pentax, Panasonic or Sony delaer. They have a handfull (less than 5) or E-M5 orders, about a dozen X-pro1 orders. The big one is the Nikon D800 where they have over 30 pre-release orders.

Dave
This doesn't surprise me. Reality is people most likely to pre-order are the same people who buy the high end. this holds in all areas of electronics. something targeted more entry level is highly unlikely to do well on pre orders - the customer is far different, and reality is these do better 2-3 months in to their life - entry customers don't spend their lives on the interwebz checking every rumor and spec and pixel peeping, when they are ready to buy they are far more likely to walk into a store pick up a few different items and make a decision then and their without doing masses of research. At most they will ask a trusted friend for advice ( I always dreaded the trusted Friend when i was in retail 9 times out of 10 they were completely misinformed and gave horrible advice pushing their friend to buy what they really wanted as opposed to what suited their friends needs)

02-24-2012, 10:08 AM   #695
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,801
Original Poster
I am waiting to see the reviews get posted and see what happens to sales once product is actually shipping and the main websites have published their findings.

I think that will be the next big swing, but I'm not sure Olympus of Fuji can do much better than they already have in sales.
02-24-2012, 10:16 AM   #696
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,185
QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I am waiting to see the reviews get posted and see what happens to sales once product is actually shipping and the main websites have published their findings.

I think that will be the next big swing, but I'm not sure Olympus of Fuji can do much better than they already have in sales.
You know that they actually haven't sold anything yet?

I bet that Olympus is not happy with Panasonic's announcement the other day of their plans to for a high-end M43 model. That plus stuff like Kirk Tuck's very positive review of the Panasonic G3 may very well temper long-term enthusiasm for the OM-D. The million dollar question for the Olympus - and one that will determine it's long term fate - is IQ. If it's G3-quality then people looking for good value will lean towards the G3/GX1 and those wanting the best M43 image quality will wait to see what Panasonic has up its sleeve. Panasonic's basically sandwiched Olympus on both ends.

Regarding the Fuji - my friend pre-ordered the three lens kit just the other day from a second-tier online retailer (just behind B&H and Adorama). He said he's #2. I was quite surprised that he was so high on the list. Maybe it's because he got the 3 lens kit. Or maybe the buzz is actually much greater than the actual pre-orders? After all, I think there's only a small handful among us planning a purchase, while a much greater number have shared their opinion about it.

Just another data point
02-24-2012, 11:09 AM   #697
Veteran Member
Laurentiu Cristofor's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: WA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,044
Olympus cameras still offer something that Panasonic ones don't: IBIS.
02-24-2012, 11:29 AM   #698
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,801
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
You know that they actually haven't sold anything yet?

I bet that Olympus is not happy with Panasonic's announcement the other day of their plans to for a high-end M43 model. That plus stuff like Kirk Tuck's very positive review of the Panasonic G3 may very well temper long-term enthusiasm for the OM-D. The million dollar question for the Olympus - and one that will determine it's long term fate - is IQ. If it's G3-quality then people looking for good value will lean towards the G3/GX1 and those wanting the best M43 image quality will wait to see what Panasonic has up its sleeve. Panasonic's basically sandwiched Olympus on both ends.

Regarding the Fuji - my friend pre-ordered the three lens kit just the other day from a second-tier online retailer (just behind B&H and Adorama). He said he's #2. I was quite surprised that he was so high on the list. Maybe it's because he got the 3 lens kit. Or maybe the buzz is actually much greater than the actual pre-orders? After all, I think there's only a small handful among us planning a purchase, while a much greater number have shared their opinion about it.

Just another data point
Yes, I know these are pre-sales. They have been very strong pre-sales.

I doubt Olympus cares what Panasonic has announced. Panasonic has been moving that direction for a while now. The GH-2 has been the highest end M4/3 and most expensive.

Panasonic has totally different ergonomics than Olympus and their strength has been HD video users. Olympus has always had the better image processor and more traditional user base. Given the same sensor I think Olympus will get better results. Kind of like how Pentax gets better results from the Sony sensors than Sony does. I used an Olympus E-3 for years and I still keep up with Olympus products, but I never even think about Panasonic. Other than their 25mm F/1.4 M4/3, I have never considered buying any of their products. I used the GH-1 a couple of times, but never really liked the camera.

02-24-2012, 07:01 PM   #699
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 341
Here's a reddit thread from someone who's actually handled an X-Pro-1. Let's hope for Fuji's sake that this isn't a typical buyer impression.
02-25-2012, 09:19 AM   #700
JPT
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Tokyo
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 1,252
Well, I also handled the X-Pro 1 today. They now have it in the big electronics stores in Japan and I tried it out this afternoon. It's actually lighter than I expected but still feels well made. All three of the lenses were fairly light too. Personally, I didn't like it from an aesthetic or ergonomic point of view, but I know that many will disagree. It felt very tall compared to other mirror less cameras. It probably depends on the cameras you've used in the past.

Unfortunately, the autofocus was terrible. Focusing simply takes too long and the EVF/LCD completely freezes during this process, meaning that when the shot is taken, you're still looking at the scene a second ago. You can use the viewfinder in optical mode, but the AF lag is unchanged. It was really frustrating. They also had an X100 and an X10 on the same display shelf. These cameras do the same thing, but they focus more quickly, so it's less frustrating. In fact, I felt the most attractive camera of the three was the cheaper X10, because it handles well and has the brightest EVF. They really have to sort this out with a firmware update.

For the record, I tried it out in a very bright, artificially-lit shop. I tried two separate X-pros that they had on display and they were the same. They still didn't have the OM-D (only cardboard cut-outs). I also tried a K-01 in the Pentax showroom but I'm going to start a new thread to give my impressions about that . . .
02-25-2012, 11:47 AM   #701
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Gladys, Virginia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 16,253
QuoteOriginally posted by JPT Quote
Well, I also handled the X-Pro 1 today. They now have it in the big electronics stores in Japan and I tried it out this afternoon. It's actually lighter than I expected but still feels well made. All three of the lenses were fairly light too. Personally, I didn't like it from an aesthetic or ergonomic point of view, but I know that many will disagree. It felt very tall compared to other mirror less cameras. It probably depends on the cameras you've used in the past.

Unfortunately, the autofocus was terrible. Focusing simply takes too long and the EVF/LCD completely freezes during this process, meaning that when the shot is taken, you're still looking at the scene a second ago. You can use the viewfinder in optical mode, but the AF lag is unchanged. It was really frustrating. They also had an X100 and an X10 on the same display shelf. These cameras do the same thing, but they focus more quickly, so it's less frustrating. In fact, I felt the most attractive camera of the three was the cheaper X10, because it handles well and has the brightest EVF. They really have to sort this out with a firmware update.

For the record, I tried it out in a very bright, artificially-lit shop. I tried two separate X-pros that they had on display and they were the same. They still didn't have the OM-D (only cardboard cut-outs). I also tried a K-01 in the Pentax showroom but I'm going to start a new thread to give my impressions about that . . .
I can tell that you are an evil decoy of Pentax, here to push the party line and denigrate the amazing X Pro.

Thanks for sharing. As always, there are downsides and upsides to every new camera. There will be some who appreciate the X Pro a lot and some who would rather have K-01 or, an OM-D. To each their own.
02-25-2012, 01:03 PM   #702
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 5,801
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by asw66 Quote
Here's a reddit thread from someone who's actually handled an X-Pro-1. Let's hope for Fuji's sake that this isn't a typical buyer impression.
Fuji X-Pro1 Hands-On Field Test with Samples - YouTube

Here is a video of a field test.

FUJI X Presented by PHOTO YODOBASHI [X-Pro1??????????]

3 days & 2 nights with the Fujifilm X-Pro1 Photo Gallery by hugo poon at pbase.com

Fujifilm X-Pro1 ISO better than Canon EOS 5D mark II? | Estiasis means focusing.
02-25-2012, 03:56 PM   #703
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,185
Interesting comments about the OM-D on TOP....

The Online Photographer: New OM-D E-M5 Available for Pre-Order

Seems like the retro look is not universally loved after all.
02-26-2012, 01:28 AM   #704
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Borås, Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,165
QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
Interesting comments about the OM-D on TOP....

The Online Photographer: New OM-D E-M5 Available for Pre-Order

Seems like the retro look is not universally loved after all.
Did anyone really expect it to be? If you make something a little different (e.g. K-01, X-Pro1, E-M5) you will have some people who fall in love with it and some people who despise it. The best way to get people not to dislike your product is to make it as dull and generic as possible, ala current DSLRs.
02-26-2012, 06:18 AM   #705
Pentaxian
johnmflores's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Somerville, NJ
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,185
QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Did anyone really expect it to be? If you make something a little different (e.g. K-01, X-Pro1, E-M5) you will have some people who fall in love with it and some people who despise it. The best way to get people not to dislike your product is to make it as dull and generic as possible, ala current DSLRs.
I agree with you but there was someone on here telling me that my friends - people they've never met - would universally choose the Olympus and Fuji over the K01.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, cameras, fuji, k-01, k01, legacy, lens, mirrorless, olympus, pentax, pentax k-01, support, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Full size Fuji X-Pro high ISO images posted... JohnBee Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 12 02-05-2012 09:30 PM
Fuji EVIL - Pro Winder Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 14 10-12-2011 02:12 AM
Pentax PRO Feature that a Pro Photog couldn't find in CaNikon! HermanLee Pentax DSLR Discussion 16 05-03-2009 09:36 AM
street shots - Fuji 400 Pro Gooshin Pentax Film SLR Discussion 17 01-16-2009 06:02 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:35 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top