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02-02-2012, 11:33 PM   #61
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I predict this camera is gonna be a runaway hit.
I'd like to say, RIGHT ON! Assuming Pricotax markets appropriately. It's off to a nice start, with tons of buzz. But first, they've gotta make and ship some, get them out in the real world. I am very very hopeful. But it ain't a done deal yet.

02-02-2012, 11:38 PM - 1 Like   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Sorry but apparently you've failed to notice the large number of new Pentax users to date due to the success of the K-x, K-r and K-5. Cameras that pushed the envelope on our color sensibilities, unique features and price point and getting those new to photography to sit up and take notice. To me that has been the success of Hoya firmly taking control and making inroads against the likes of Canon and Nikon. Now obviously, there is also very strong interest in the mirrorless market as seen by the proliferation of new models from other makers.

The new K-01 is making a strong attempt to break into the mirrorless segment and I think they will do well because there is already a large K-mount user base to begin with. It is far, far easier to leverage on an existing user base than to start from next to zero. Even allowing for a large proportion of existing Pentax lens users who can't accept mirrorless and prefer conventional DSLRs, that's still a big number of users who will buy this camera.

The Fuji cameras are priced high and targeted at the high net worth enthusiast but will never achieve mass market success. Pentax/Ricoh has a better chance of achieving this. After all if it can offer K-5 quality or better at less than K-5 prices, this new camera will imo fly off the shelves.
When you say "Large number" exactly how many are we talking about? Pentax does not even move the needle when it comes to market share, so relevantly speaking it can not be too large a number. As you have said, Pentax users are value oriented. How many of them who already own a K-r or K-5 will buy another Pentax body? That large number starts to get pretty small when you deduct out all of the K-mount owners who do not need a second camera and would rather buy a lens. The size difference between a K-01 and K-5 is not very significant. What am I gaining by buying a K-01 as a second body.

Fuji is a high prices item that is targeting a smaller group, and I believe it will still outsell the K-01 at 2x the price.

If the K-01 is 1/2 the price and has more "mass market" appeal and significant legacy lens support then it should out sell the Fuji XP1. That would be a logical result. As you have pointed out the Fuji is expensive and is targeting a small slice of the market. Fuji has not legacy support.

SO.... when that doesn't happen.... what will have been the reason? There is not a snowballs chance in hell that the camera that Pentax announced today is going to outsell the Fuji XP1.
02-02-2012, 11:40 PM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I don't think the Pentax K-01 is the answer for the Fuji. I think the two cameras represent the two different directions of two different companies. It is the differences that I find striking. When I see the Q and the K-01 from Pentax I see a stark contrast to the X100 and the X-PRO 1 from Fuji.
So why are we comparing the K-01 to the X-Pro...? And also, the photography market does not revolve solely on enthusiasts alone... What we may be seeing here could be a mere test bed for Pentax. If the K-01 sells to its target consumers, then wouldn't it be good also to launch something above it in the future? I think what Pentax is doing here is to first create anticipation for a product that climbs up the interest ladder, or at least introduce them to the current existing model lineup.

Of course they start off the place where the bigger number of customers could be reigned in - the entry level/ casual shooter. If the K-01 proves to be a success, then we got ourselves a whole new bunch of people eager for K-glass, which may lead to the production of a higher model, or a transition to the K-5 successor. And of course more sales for K mount lenses, which may lead to more K lens design offers.

Thing with the Fuji is, it's a limited market- sure, you get a lot of money with the price tag, but then again, does that customer base demand as much or rise as fast as the entry-level market? I think not. I think that's what makes the X-Pro, X100 and X10 for enthusiasts who like lots of control, definitely not entry-level.

QuoteOriginally posted by vrrattko Quote
K-01 is clearly an entry level for newcomers or backup camera for those with Pentax dslr and lenses. Somebody mentioned Pentax MX-D and LX-D : names like that would create same kind of expectation as OM-D did, it would be a shame if Pentax wastes them on something else than high profile proffesional camera.
Nice mention there sir vrrattko. Who knows if Pentax, in the future, would make an MX-D or LX-D. But let's not forget that those might cannibalize on DSLR sales...
02-02-2012, 11:45 PM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
...There is not a snowballs chance in hell that the camera that Pentax announced today is going to outsell the Fuji XP1.

Hope you don't choke over this...
Same or better image quality and cheaper than the K-5 in a smaller size... Pentax distributors will sell them quicker than they can get their hands on them.

02-02-2012, 11:51 PM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Of course they start off the place where the bigger number of customers could be reigned in - the entry level/ casual shooter. If the K-01 proves to be a success, then we got ourselves a whole new bunch of people eager for K-glass, which may lead to the production of a higher model, or a transition to the K-5 successor. And of course more sales for K mount lenses, which may lead to more K lens design offers.
The question is: is this really an entry-level/casual shooter camera? I have mixed feelings. Most people willing to buy it seem to be Pentax consumers already who can re-use their K lenses. There's great IQ and ISO performance inside it, but that hardly matters for casual shooters.

So what is left to catter to everybody else? The signed design, maybe? They sure got lots of spotlight from that, althought not in a good way (lots of mockery).
02-02-2012, 11:54 PM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote

Hope you don't choke over this...
Same or better image quality and cheaper than the K-5 in a smaller size... Pentax distributors will sell them quicker than they can get their hands on them.
One side of my brain really hopes you're right so Pentax can get rich and keep releasing some amazing stuff at increasingly lower prices.

The other side is hurting, though
02-03-2012, 12:02 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
That's frankly laughable.
I predict this camera is gonna be a runaway hit.
Can you define "runaway hit?"
02-03-2012, 12:06 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
The question is: is this really an entry-level/casual shooter camera? I have mixed feelings. Most people willing to buy it seem to be Pentax consumers already who can re-use their K lenses. There's great IQ and ISO performance inside it, but that hardly matters for casual shooters. So what is left to catter to everybody else? The signed design, maybe? They sure got lots of spotlight from that, althought not in a good way (lots of mockery).
Well it was only released yesterday, I don't think the "mass market" will have all the details within that span of time, I guess? Only a few handful have a pre-production copy. So it's just out for the looks now. Who says "great IQ and ISO performance hardly matters for casual shooters"? Doesn't even the common non-photographer man get frustrated if he wants to shoot in dim light (let's say a bar) and still get a good photo without having to employ pro lighting or something (which might not even cross his mind)?

Of course it is the Pentax people who have the first quips and interests about the product, along with people who have knowledge about the intricacies of camera systems... What makes me think it is an entry level camera is: why on earth does it not have the basic features users like us demand? Surely, there must be a reason why Pentax castrated the K-5 and turned it into the K-01... the main reason being, I believe, the customers they plan to sell it to are people who aren't used to squinting through a small window to their faces, want to use different lenses and not get overwhelmed by a sheer number of buttons. People who want to have that "I got an SLR" feel but don't want to look like an idiot trying to operate one.

of course its success will now weigh on how Ricoh markets it from here and if users will find it a very sound investment.

02-03-2012, 12:35 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Surely, there must be a reason why Pentax castrated the K-5 and turned it into the K-01... the main reason being, I believe, the customers they plan to sell it to are people who aren't used to squinting through a small window to their faces, want to use different lenses
I'm afraid "people who aren't used to squinting through a small window" don't care about "using different lenses", let alone the 40mm prime they are shipping this with.

I can't see how this can be a mass-market product, really. All the choices, from design to features, position it at the niche of a niche - K-mount users who want video features and don't care for VF. It's the only thing it's good at.
02-03-2012, 12:43 AM - 1 Like   #70
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
I'm afraid "people who aren't used to squinting through a small window" don't care about "using different lenses", let alone the 40mm prime they are shipping this with.

I can't see how this can be a mass-market product, really. All the choices, from design to features, position it at the niche of a niche - K-mount users who want video features and don't care for VF. It's the only thing it's good at.
I still don't get it as to why they kept the k mount. To me, if you want to go mirrorless, designing a new mount is an absolute necessity. Why completely and utterly ignore the biggest advantage that mirrorless set up can offer?
02-03-2012, 12:47 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
I still don't get it as to why they kept the k mount. To me, if you want to go mirrorless, designing a new mount is an absolute necessity. Why completely and utterly ignore the biggest advantage that mirrorless set up can offer?
Ditto.
02-03-2012, 01:27 AM   #72
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This thread makes for good reading.

I jumped from a leica based system. (Say what!!!) yes from Leica to Pentax. Pentax has in my opinion a very solid offering and with Ricoh on-board it will be a great future ahead.Plus the MZ-s is a great camera for film and the K5 is very solid as well,.

First They have everything from very good lenses to very good weather sealed camera;s even large format camera's. The new K-01 fits into that offering. As I see it
- Q is great for point and shoot
- K-01 is great m43 replacement but providing access to K mount major bonus...
- K5 Dslr is just what it is.. a class leading camera
- 645D is taking a gun to a knife fight, simply awesome.

My 2 cents on the Fuji camera's is that they look good but they just do not cut it. I appreciate it when a camera manufacturer sticks to their mount. Why, well I am happy to spend money on lenses but if the manufacturer drops them in a few years time you will be stuck,.
02-03-2012, 02:56 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
I'm afraid "people who aren't used to squinting through a small window" don't care about "using different lenses", let alone the 40mm prime they are shipping this with.
they will when they notice they're sacrificing range for class quality... and anyway i've read somewhere that the K-01 can also ship with the 18-55 kit lens. lemme get back on that.. and how sure are we that these people don't want the idea of changing lenses anyway?
02-03-2012, 03:21 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
i've read somewhere that the K-01 can also ship with the 18-55 kit lens. lemme get back on that.. ?
It sure will be. Pentax K-01 in Black with DAL 18-55mm Lens - Jessops - Compact System Cameras.

I for one think this camera will do well. I've got a lot of friends who've got small children and you'd be amazed how many have bridge cameras but want more without going all the way up to a dslr - they enjoy playing with my kx and k5, but only really in auto mode as they are only interested in taking better pictures without learning the skills. They're prepared to spend up to around £1000 for a camera that takes really good photos and video, so under £700 for the '01 with what is actually a rather good kit lens leaves them with a good chunk of that budget in their pocket.

There is another market that this camera will sell to, and quite likely that includes me; both of my housemates are heavily involved in film making (one's a lecturer in LBA at the art college I also work in) and the other is doing his masters in LBA and animation and both were extremely interested in the k-01 when I showed it to them yesterday, to the point that one of them is now holding off on buying the Canon 5D he was about to until he can try the '01 out. At less than half the price than the body only, with what appear to be better specs for video, that's not at all surprising. The other is also waiting for it to come out with bated breath as he thinks it could well be a game-changer, and seeing as he teaches over 100 students, that's potentially 100 odd young people introduced and raised on Pentax, just like in the past. Significantly, viewfinders are not high on the list of requirements for either group, and as the lack of either an OVF or EVF seems to be the highest criticism so far I think Pentax don't have a lot to be concerned about with the '01's lack of one. A tilting screen would most likely be more desirable for the kinds of people this camera will be bought by.

This is great as far as I'm concerned and does bode well for the brand in my opinion. Oh, and as for the looks of the thing? I love it, especially the black and silver. Stands out in a growing sea of Leica-likes and doesn't try to pretend to be something it's not.

Last edited by wildweasel; 02-03-2012 at 03:32 AM.
02-03-2012, 03:48 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Still "vaporware". Is there something really exciting on that map I missed?
Yes. You totally missed the name Ricoh.

QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I was more bothered by what was no on the road map more than impressed by what was. Do we need another 50mm? Another 40mm? What is the WOW lens on that road map?
Surprising as it may seem to you a LOT of Pentax shooters are very excited about the new round of lenses that, with Ricoh's help, should now appear within the next 6-18 months. For me personally the 500/5.6 (assumption), 120-380 (I think - hope ! - this will be like the Sigma 100-300/4) and the DA*16-85 (f2.8 and WR ?).

Last edited by Frogfish; 02-03-2012 at 05:06 AM.
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