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02-02-2012, 09:11 PM - 1 Like   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Explain why the Fuji is such a hot selling camera if it has no legacy glass to support it? How can Fuji sell for twice the price? I get the feeling Pentax is about to get their butts handed to them in the mirror-less camera market.
Because despite Fuji being a no-one in the market, they were able to actually put a desirable product out: a poor man's Leica with cool new tech (hybrid viewfinder), good IQ and ergonomy in a beautiful product, even if still ridiculously pricey.

That shows how brand name means nothing and how people will buy into a product if it just tickles the right knobs on them. Pentax OTH is skipping the beat on the MILC market releasing a product no one asked for (a K-5 without a viewfinder signed by a designer...).

02-02-2012, 09:23 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by sunny16 Quote
Will any of these provide better photos than your K-5?
The Fuji XP1 is using the same Sony sensor as my K-5, but with a 6x6 color array and no AA filter. So technically the Fuji should/could provide better sharpness, color, and DR than the K-5,b ut until it gets in the field we won't know if Fuji pulled it off. Fuji provided 12x18 prints from the D7000, 5DII, & X-PRO 1 at all ISOs for people to look at (CES launch) and the people who viewed them said the Fuji XP! was the clear winner. I can only assume that the prints were not doctored.

I am not looking for a camera to replace my K-5. Mirror-less systems are finally getting to the quality level where I am interested. It would be a separate system for me. I sold my 5D original, 85L, 135L and 24-70L. I had no intention of buying the K-5, but Samy's screwed up and sold me one for $750.00 delivered. None of this is relevant though.

Why will more people pay twice as much for the Fuji with no lens support than for a K-01 with full K-mount support? If Pentax ever wants to gain market share and be relevant they need to be the ones enticing people to pay 2x more money. This is why Pentax has been bought and sold twice in the last decade. This is why Pentax was a failing business. Pentax can only wish their products were seeing the same level of demand and excitement as Fuji. X100 sold over 100,000 units in the first year.
02-02-2012, 09:27 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by hcarvalhoalves Quote
Because despite Fuji being a no-one in the market, they were able to actually put a desirable product out: a poor man's Leica with cool new tech (hybrid viewfinder), good IQ and ergonomy in a beautiful product, even if still ridiculously pricey.

That shows how brand name means nothing and how people will buy into a product if it just tickles the right knobs on them. Pentax OTH is skipping the beat on the MILC market releasing a product no one asked for (a K-5 without a viewfinder signed by a designer...).
Honest Question: You and winder (and others obviously) seem to have almost anger over this. If these other products fit your "dream camera" then why waste time being mad at Pentax... just follow your heart and go get your girl (camera.)
02-02-2012, 09:30 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji is a company with less mass market name recognition than Pentax for the average camera buyer. They have been completely out of the ILC segment for 5 years now. They will pass Pentax with the X-mount because they can use K-mount and M-mount adapters and open a lot of doors with a lot of people who never would have thought twice about Fuji. If Pentax had released an MX-D and announced and M-mount adapter I think Pentax would have had a home run.

What does PRIME M mean exactly? is it better than what is in the K-5? What are the advantages?
What makes you think the IQ of the Pentax K-01 will be better than the Fuji X-PRO 1? They have the same Sony sensor. Fuji has removed the AA filter and changed the color array.
Uh, Fuji is capable of manufacturing sensors on their own. They do not need Sony.

Also, I do not see how Pentax can fit K-mount and M-mount on the same camera, these two mounts have very different flange focal distance. To achieve such thing a camera must have: a mount can be removed and replaced with another, a collapsible mount that can adjust flange distance, or a sensor that can move back and forth. And putting even one of these three abilities into the camera can increase the manufacturing cost quite a bit.


Last edited by K1D27H; 02-02-2012 at 09:41 PM.
02-02-2012, 09:34 PM - 2 Likes   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by sunny16 Quote
Honest Question: You and winder (and others obviously) seem to have almost anger over this. If these other products fit your "dream camera" then why waste time being mad at Pentax... just follow your heart and go get your girl (camera.)
No anger. I just want to point out that legacy lens support is irrelevant. Fuji has NONE and it is going to out sell the Pentax at 2x the price. Both M4/3 and X-mount will out sell K-mount this year.

Pentax forced one of the best lens designers in the business into retirement last year, but the guy who gave us the Q probably still has a job..... Fuji is going after Leica and Pentax is trying to take on Fisher-Price.
02-02-2012, 09:47 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
Fuji has NONE and it is going to out sell the Pentax at 2x the price.
I'll wait for how the Japan market reacts to this. Are most of them a fan of 60s-style rangefinders too?
02-02-2012, 09:51 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
I'll wait for how the Japan market reacts to this. Are most of them a fan of 60s-style rangefinders too?
Well, it is the only country you can find a digital rangefinder like Epson R-D1xG aside from Leica. So that kind of means something.

02-02-2012, 09:52 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
No anger. I just want to point out that legacy lens support is irrelevant. Fuji has NONE and it is going to out sell the Pentax at 2x the price. Both M4/3 and X-mount will out sell K-mount this year.
I think most of what you say COULD be the case (time will tell.) However, legacy lens support will be relevant to more than a few people. I personally would lean towards any k-mount Pentax camera due to owning quite a few lenses already. Someone new to cameras who doesn't have the investment would potentially see it differently. Lastly, the image quality will still matter. I'm not up fully on whether the Fuji has been released yet, but obviously the Pentax and rumored Olympus OM-D are still completely unknown. Now, if a person hates the look of the camera, then it probably won't matter much what the IQ is. But lets just say for arguments sake the the K-01 images knock it out of the park... I think you'll see more people take a closer look. We'll see what happens. As a fan of Pentax, I hope it works out. After all, the more successful this K-01 is, the more likely we'll see updates.
02-02-2012, 10:04 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by K1D27H Quote
Well, it is the only country you can find a digital rangefinder like Epson R-D1xG aside from Leica. So that kind of means something.
Hmm... and this brought much success to Epson, I think...?
02-02-2012, 10:06 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
Hmm... and this brought much success to Epson, I think...?
It is a niche product for a niche market, but Epson still making it. So I think it is doing okay.
02-02-2012, 10:09 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by K1D27H Quote
It is a niche product for a niche market,
if so, then the Fuji and the OM-D are niche products too? What would that make the K-01?
02-02-2012, 10:13 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by sunny16 Quote
I think most of what you say COULD be the case (time will tell.) However, legacy lens support will be relevant to more than a few people. I personally would lean towards any k-mount Pentax camera due to owning quite a few lenses already. Someone new to cameras who doesn't have the investment would potentially see it differently. Lastly, the image quality will still matter. I'm not up fully on whether the Fuji has been released yet, but obviously the Pentax and rumored Olympus OM-D are still completely unknown. Now, if a person hates the look of the camera, then it probably won't matter much what the IQ is. But lets just say for arguments sake the the K-01 images knock it out of the park... I think you'll see more people take a closer look. We'll see what happens. As a fan of Pentax, I hope it works out. After all, the more successful this K-01 is, the more likely we'll see updates.
I think a Fuji with a K-mount adapter is a better option for people who have K-mount glass. I think the Fuji with an M-mount adapter is a better option for people with Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander glass.

If the K-01 AF is super fast and accurate then I think the Pentax has a chance, but AF has never been a strong point of Pentax. IQ from Pentax has always been very good, but Fuji's APS-C cameras have also had very strong IQ and an occult following among some wedding photographers for their skin tones and DR. Initial reports from field testers is that the Fuji IQ is very good. Better than Nikon D3 good.

The people who really care about legacy lens support are the people who own a lot of K-mount glass, and thus wont be buying any new lenses anyway. They represent a dead income stream for Pentax. Pentax has to attract new customers or introduce new lenses that are very attractive to their existing base. I don't see Pentax doing either of those. The lens road map a disappointment. Not a single DFA lens. Not a single fast prime. For 7 years Pentax has been working on the 1.4X TC. After 7 years of R&D it had better be the damn TC to ever grace the planet earth.
02-02-2012, 10:13 PM - 2 Likes   #28
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Everybody hold your horses until the Pentax K-01 hits the stores and available for sale... then the picture will be clearer whether Fuji is indeed the more desirable product. I still stand by my assertion that the average Pentax crowd aren't prepared to spend the kind of money the Fuji X-Pro 1 is going for and will gravitate towards the better bang for the money K-01. Anyway I'll be holding the new K-01 in the flesh tomorrow morning...
02-02-2012, 10:16 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Everybody hold your horses until the Pentax K-01 hits the stores and available for sale... then the picture will be clearer whether Fuji is indeed the more desirable product. I still stand by my assertion that the average Pentax crowd aren't prepared to spend the kind of money the Fuji X-Pro 1 is going for and will gravitate towards the better bang for the money K-01. Anyway I'll be holding the new K-01 in the flesh tomorrow morning...
Hope to see your initial review on it! Stores here in my place won't have one for a couple of months after Japan/US I guess.
02-02-2012, 10:17 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alizarine Quote
if so, then the Fuji and the OM-D are niche products too? What would that make the K-01?
Nah, I am just here to comment, I am not looking for a debate.

Also, had a talk with other people from different forums, a lot of them seem to have reservation for X Pro 1 regarding the price. Many agree that the price is too high especially the body alone and it will be one of the major factors that turn people away.

EM-5? I have no information regarding it at this moment, so I have no idea what I should comment about it.

K-01? Video people might like it. For me, I am an OVF person. If I want K-01 it will need some kind of VF, even if it means EVF. LCD is not going to cut it.
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