Hands-On Photos of the K-01 from Pentax Singapore User Group

RonHendriks1966 · 02-14-2012, 02:45 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Both codecs are H.264/AVC ...
The difference will be in the containers and quality of implementation. Moreover, AVCHD is limited to 24 MBits/s, AVCHD2 to 28 MBit/s, MP4 isn't limited, Bluray being around 50MBit/s.

How much is our crappy DVD?

So if you want to make a production that would end up on bluray we cannot use K-01? Or is this a matter of compression in the camera and not for endproduct?

Basicly is the question: Wich one produces likely the better video quality: K-5 or K-01?

falconeye · 02-14-2012, 04:11 AM

Originally posted by RonHendriks1966

How much is our crappy DVD?

So if you want to make a production that would end up on bluray we cannot use K-01? Or is this a matter of compression in the camera and not for endproduct?

Basicly is the question: Wich one produces likely the better video quality: K-5 or K-01?

I referred to Bluray for your information only. IMHO, Blurays use high bitrates to make copying as hard as possible. E.g., the Bluray Planet Earth with true 1080p footage which has stunning image quality runs at 20 MBit/s on average with peaks around 35 MBit/s. And it's not even using the AVC codec yet.

A DVD reencoded to H.264/AVC with very good quality (no visible loss) has about 1.5 - 2 MBit/s.

An MP4 data stream of 20 MBit/s average can have stunning quality. The problem is that the required computational power is so high and most real-time hardware encoders deliver poor quality, meaning you need a high bitrate to compensate.

The more capable software encoders on modern Intel multi core CPUs are just capable to encode MP4 in realtime if you want good results.

Maybe, the Fujitsu Milbeaut M6 (Pentax Prime M) being a new DSP is a break thru here. Maybe, at a given bitrate, it's output quality is closer to software encoders than previous in-camera encoders.

If this is not the case, then the K-5's MJPEG with its incredible bitrate may indeed beat the K-01 in quality. However, IMO the high bitrate combined with the 4GB limit restricts the K-5 too much wrt recording time.

Samuel H · 02-14-2012, 04:14 AM

k-5 lacks manual controls when shooting video - from there on, anything else doesn't matter: for serious video, it's not a contender (for stills, would you buy a DSLR that didn't have A,S,M modes?)

about the comparison with dvd and bluray codecs: it's not a fair comparison: acquisition IQ should be a lot better than delivery IQ, because you're going to push and pull those images a lot in post, and it needs to hold up
that's why we want 4:2:2 10-bit codecs for acquisition but 4:2:0 8-bit is enough for delivery

in any case, bluray is usually around 32 Mbps
for acquisition, there are very good codecs that work at around 50 Mbps (Canon XF: 4:2:2 8-bit), but 100 Mbps would be better (4:2:2 10-bit, possibly all-intra)
you can live by with the 4:2:0 8-bit 24 Mbps of AVCHD, but it's definitely a compromise

Yakim · 02-14-2012, 05:17 AM

Originally posted by ogl

It means that K-01 is not for you. You can buy K-5, or new K-300 or K-3...

Unfortunately, none of them (and others) make me want to buy them. Oh well, I guess I'll have to buy a K to MFT adapter. The new E-M5 does make me want to buy it.

ogl · 02-14-2012, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by Yakim

Unfortunately, none of them (and others) make me want to buy them. Oh well, I guess I'll have to buy a K to MFT adapter. The new E-M5 does make me want to buy it.

if you have no any interest to IQ of Pentax system, you can buy 4/3 with rather mediocre results.

Yakim · 02-14-2012, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by ogl

if you have no any interest to IQ of Pentax system, you can buy 4/3 with rather mediocre results.

I have played quite a lot with a friend's GH2. Results were great.

ogl · 02-14-2012, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by Yakim

I have played quite a lot with a friend's GH2. Results were great.

Seems to me - worse than Pentax K-r or K-5. it's fact. If you think GH2's IQ is cool for you...No problem.

Last edited by ogl; 02-14-2012 at 08:50 AM.

**monochrome** · 02-14-2012, 07:10 AM

Everyone please remember the K-01 has a pre-production List Price of $749 and will likely street somewhere around $600 just weeks after release. This discussion needs some perspective. We're not talking about Panasonic AC-130 here. Let's get some perspective.

The K-01 is a K-5 without the viewfinder and a few modes and controls. It may have some software and processor enhancements that make it curiously better than entry-level IQ for its price point, yet curiously lacking high-end features for its IQ and video specs. My guess is the target is Japanese young people and families who want to capture casual travel and family video and casual images. I can't imagine Pentax wants this to become the cult camera for Indie street video producers.

Be happy for what you get or get what lets you be happy.

ogl · 02-14-2012, 07:26 AM

Originally posted by monochrome

The K-01 is a K-5 without the viewfinder and a few modes and controls.

Be happy for what you get or get what lets you be happy.

I find K-01 is not K-5 w/o VF...Why do you think so? K-01 is different...

RonHendriks1966 · 02-14-2012, 08:09 AM

Thanks for al the info. Basicly we have to wait and see how it turns out. It is cool that K-01 doesn't need so much space in storage.

johnmflores · 02-14-2012, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Much worse than Pentax K-r or K-5. it's fact. If you think GH2's IQ is cool for you...No problem.

Having use the GH2 and K-5 extensively last year, I'd say the difference is smaller than many think. K-5 files are more organic, elastic. GH2 capable of very nice files as well, but more brittle in post.

Haven't used the K-5 for much video though, so can't speak to that.

Yakim · 02-14-2012, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by ogl

Much worse than Pentax K-r or K-5. it's fact. If you think GH2's IQ is cool for you...No problem.

There is such thing as "Good enough". I have no doubt that when comparing IQ alone Sony's 16MP sensor is the best APS-C bar none. However, when comparing one system to another many things come into play. One thing is EVF. For me it is mandatory. Another is the lenses. MFT primes are small and have great IQ. AF speed is also great in later generations while the K5 with 77/1.8 I tried a year ago hesitated a lot in low light (I tried a friend's cam). Other is compatibility. On MFT you can put just about any lens you want. On K-01 the choice is a lot more limited.

In fact, I had the very same choice inside the Canon system. 5 years ago I preferred the 40D over the 5D and 2 years ago I preferred the 7D over the 5D2. Yes, the 5D series offer better IQ but a) not by much and b) it is especially at very high ISO which I don't use much. OTOH, the other body parameters were either very close (e.g. VF), simply lacking (e.g. dust system and LV in the 5D, better ergonomics, better BQ, flash commander, electronic level in the 5D2 etc.) or absolutely dismal (e.g. AF). And before you ask, yes, I have compared them side by side.

As I see it, IQ is not the only parameter I check when I buy gear. It is the most important but I'm wiling to compromise a bit if I feel I'm getting a lot in other areas.

Don't get me wrong. The yellow K-01 is a camera I desire like I can't remember ever wanting a camera, it's IQ is superb and I actually have a magnificent old Pentax 70-210/4 lens. However, when I compare all parameters, I will go MFT with the E-M5.

ogl · 02-14-2012, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by johnmflores

Having use the GH2 and K-5 extensively last year, I'd say the difference is smaller than many think. K-5 files are more organic, elastic. GH2 capable of very nice files as well, but more brittle in post.

Haven't used the K-5 for much video though, so can't speak to that.

I say about SYSTEM - camera + lens...GH2 - maybe good camera...But I can't use FA43 with this camera...for example.

**monochrome** · 02-14-2012, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by ogl

I find K-01 is not K-5 w/o VF...Why do you think so? K-01 is different...

For still photos please explain how the K-01 differs materially.

For video yes it is more than evolutionary. FWIW I've ordered a K-01.

ogl · 02-14-2012, 08:30 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

For still photos please explain how the K-01 differs materially.

For video yes it is more than evolutionary. FWIW I've ordered a K-01.

K20D and K-7's pictures were not equal in terms of colour/noise - or in JPEG either in RAW.

K-01 has different procesor and could has different sensor colour filters. Weaker or stronger AA filter. Maybt the same...

The final picture could be another. It's hard to say now.

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02-14-2012, 02:45 AM	#256
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Originally posted by falconeye Both codecs are H.264/AVC ... The difference will be in the containers and quality of implementation. Moreover, AVCHD is limited to 24 MBits/s, AVCHD2 to 28 MBit/s, MP4 isn't limited, Bluray being around 50MBit/s. How much is our crappy DVD? So if you want to make a production that would end up on bluray we cannot use K-01? Or is this a matter of compression in the camera and not for endproduct? Basicly is the question: Wich one produces likely the better video quality: K-5 or K-01?

02-14-2012, 04:11 AM	#257
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by RonHendriks1966 How much is our crappy DVD? So if you want to make a production that would end up on bluray we cannot use K-01? Or is this a matter of compression in the camera and not for endproduct? Basicly is the question: Wich one produces likely the better video quality: K-5 or K-01? I referred to Bluray for your information only. IMHO, Blurays use high bitrates to make copying as hard as possible. E.g., the Bluray Planet Earth with true 1080p footage which has stunning image quality runs at 20 MBit/s on average with peaks around 35 MBit/s. And it's not even using the AVC codec yet. A DVD reencoded to H.264/AVC with very good quality (no visible loss) has about 1.5 - 2 MBit/s. An MP4 data stream of 20 MBit/s average can have stunning quality. The problem is that the required computational power is so high and most real-time hardware encoders deliver poor quality, meaning you need a high bitrate to compensate. The more capable software encoders on modern Intel multi core CPUs are just capable to encode MP4 in realtime if you want good results. Maybe, the Fujitsu Milbeaut M6 (Pentax Prime M) being a new DSP is a break thru here. Maybe, at a given bitrate, it's output quality is closer to software encoders than previous in-camera encoders. If this is not the case, then the K-5's MJPEG with its incredible bitrate may indeed beat the K-01 in quality. However, IMO the high bitrate combined with the 4GB limit restricts the K-5 too much wrt recording time.

02-14-2012, 04:14 AM	#258
Samuel H Forum Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 74	k-5 lacks manual controls when shooting video - from there on, anything else doesn't matter: for serious video, it's not a contender (for stills, would you buy a DSLR that didn't have A,S,M modes?) about the comparison with dvd and bluray codecs: it's not a fair comparison: acquisition IQ should be a lot better than delivery IQ, because you're going to push and pull those images a lot in post, and it needs to hold up that's why we want 4:2:2 10-bit codecs for acquisition but 4:2:0 8-bit is enough for delivery in any case, bluray is usually around 32 Mbps for acquisition, there are very good codecs that work at around 50 Mbps (Canon XF: 4:2:2 8-bit), but 100 Mbps would be better (4:2:2 10-bit, possibly all-intra) you can live by with the 4:2:0 8-bit 24 Mbps of AVCHD, but it's definitely a compromise

02-14-2012, 05:17 AM	#259
Yakim Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 29	Originally posted by ogl It means that K-01 is not for you. You can buy K-5, or new K-300 or K-3... Unfortunately, none of them (and others) make me want to buy them. Oh well, I guess I'll have to buy a K to MFT adapter. The new E-M5 does make me want to buy it.

02-14-2012, 05:43 AM	#260
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Yakim Unfortunately, none of them (and others) make me want to buy them. Oh well, I guess I'll have to buy a K to MFT adapter. The new E-M5 does make me want to buy it. if you have no any interest to IQ of Pentax system, you can buy 4/3 with rather mediocre results.

02-14-2012, 06:27 AM	#261
Yakim Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 29	Originally posted by ogl if you have no any interest to IQ of Pentax system, you can buy 4/3 with rather mediocre results. I have played quite a lot with a friend's GH2. Results were great.

02-14-2012, 06:56 AM	#262
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by Yakim I have played quite a lot with a friend's GH2. Results were great. Seems to me - worse than Pentax K-r or K-5. it's fact. If you think GH2's IQ is cool for you...No problem. Last edited by ogl; 02-14-2012 at 08:50 AM.

02-14-2012, 07:10 AM	#263
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Everyone please remember the K-01 has a pre-production List Price of $749 and will likely street somewhere around $600 just weeks after release. This discussion needs some perspective. We're not talking about Panasonic AC-130 here. Let's get some perspective. The K-01 is a K-5 without the viewfinder and a few modes and controls. It may have some software and processor enhancements that make it curiously better than entry-level IQ for its price point, yet curiously lacking high-end features for its IQ and video specs. My guess is the target is Japanese young people and families who want to capture casual travel and family video and casual images. I can't imagine Pentax wants this to become the cult camera for Indie street video producers. Be happy for what you get or get what lets you be happy.

02-14-2012, 07:26 AM	#264
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by monochrome The K-01 is a K-5 without the viewfinder and a few modes and controls. Be happy for what you get or get what lets you be happy. I find K-01 is not K-5 w/o VF...Why do you think so? K-01 is different...

02-14-2012, 08:09 AM	#265
RonHendriks1966 Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Photos: Gallery Posts: 9,675	Thanks for al the info. Basicly we have to wait and see how it turns out. It is cool that K-01 doesn't need so much space in storage.

02-14-2012, 08:17 AM	#266
johnmflores Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Somerville, NJ Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 5,361	Originally posted by ogl Much worse than Pentax K-r or K-5. it's fact. If you think GH2's IQ is cool for you...No problem. Having use the GH2 and K-5 extensively last year, I'd say the difference is smaller than many think. K-5 files are more organic, elastic. GH2 capable of very nice files as well, but more brittle in post. Haven't used the K-5 for much video though, so can't speak to that.

02-14-2012, 08:17 AM	#267
Yakim Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 29	Originally posted by ogl Much worse than Pentax K-r or K-5. it's fact. If you think GH2's IQ is cool for you...No problem. There is such thing as "Good enough". I have no doubt that when comparing IQ alone Sony's 16MP sensor is the best APS-C bar none. However, when comparing one system to another many things come into play. One thing is EVF. For me it is mandatory. Another is the lenses. MFT primes are small and have great IQ. AF speed is also great in later generations while the K5 with 77/1.8 I tried a year ago hesitated a lot in low light (I tried a friend's cam). Other is compatibility. On MFT you can put just about any lens you want. On K-01 the choice is a lot more limited. In fact, I had the very same choice inside the Canon system. 5 years ago I preferred the 40D over the 5D and 2 years ago I preferred the 7D over the 5D2. Yes, the 5D series offer better IQ but a) not by much and b) it is especially at very high ISO which I don't use much. OTOH, the other body parameters were either very close (e.g. VF), simply lacking (e.g. dust system and LV in the 5D, better ergonomics, better BQ, flash commander, electronic level in the 5D2 etc.) or absolutely dismal (e.g. AF). And before you ask, yes, I have compared them side by side. As I see it, IQ is not the only parameter I check when I buy gear. It is the most important but I'm wiling to compromise a bit if I feel I'm getting a lot in other areas. Don't get me wrong. The yellow K-01 is a camera I desire like I can't remember ever wanting a camera, it's IQ is superb and I actually have a magnificent old Pentax 70-210/4 lens. However, when I compare all parameters, I will go MFT with the E-M5.

02-14-2012, 08:49 AM	#268
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by johnmflores Having use the GH2 and K-5 extensively last year, I'd say the difference is smaller than many think. K-5 files are more organic, elastic. GH2 capable of very nice files as well, but more brittle in post. Haven't used the K-5 for much video though, so can't speak to that. I say about SYSTEM - camera + lens...GH2 - maybe good camera...But I can't use FA43 with this camera...for example.

02-14-2012, 02:54 PM	#269
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by ogl I find K-01 is not K-5 w/o VF...Why do you think so? K-01 is different... For still photos please explain how the K-01 differs materially. For video yes it is more than evolutionary. FWIW I've ordered a K-01.

02-14-2012, 08:30 PM	#270
ogl Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Sankt Peterburg Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 8,382	Originally posted by monochrome For still photos please explain how the K-01 differs materially. For video yes it is more than evolutionary. FWIW I've ordered a K-01. K20D and K-7's pictures were not equal in terms of colour/noise - or in JPEG either in RAW. K-01 has different procesor and could has different sensor colour filters. Weaker or stronger AA filter. Maybt the same... The final picture could be another. It's hard to say now.