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02-04-2012, 08:58 AM   #16
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I love these responses, and got a good laugh at reading them!

I agree heartily with you JohnMFlores - the K-01 stands well enough on its own. And that Redrock EVF is very cool.

02-04-2012, 10:59 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
This - either as a K-01 accessory or built-in - brings the K-01 closer to the K-5 in features and specs and current street price, and exposes Pentax to the risk of product cannibalization (people buying the cheaper K-01 instead of the K-5). I bet that there were plenty of discussion within Pentax as to whether include EVF support in the K-01 and technical, photographic, and marketing considerations were debated.

My guess, like others here, is that the next iteration of the APS-C mirrorless product line will incorporate EVF either as an accessory or built in, but only after Pentax has released a K-5 successor that is farther away in features, capabilities, and street price.
A bad strategy, most camera customers aren't stuck with choosing k-01 or k-5, the ones that most likely are is a small part of the market (these are people heavily invested in k-mount lenses). The next update could take a year to happen, customers are most likely going to find alternatives, if they want an evf they will get an evf. If nikon/canon comes out with a similar product in 3-6 months, one that has an evf, then the head start pentax have could be wasted (look how close the Nikon 1 - sep 2011 and Pentax Q - june 2011 were released together, just 3 months).

Also when they release the k-5's successor, then release the k-01 successor/update (even if they are released at the same time), people will expect the new k-01 to be similar to the k-5's successor's specs just like how the k-01 and the k-5 are similar at the moment, if it isn't then people will just be disappointed and the bad reviews/comments/publicity flows in once again.

So in the end people will get disappointed anyway and Pentax once again will get bad reviews/comments for the products (look at whats happening here and whats happening in other sites like dpreview), and all this time Pentax is risking losing their first mover advantage.

The one thing companies should learn from the most successful company out there at the moment (Apple) is that they should not be afraid to cannibalize their own products if it means getting people to buy rather than have them look at the products of competitors. Apple were not afraid to cannibalize their iPods when they released the iPhone, the same for macbooks and ipod touch when they released the iPads.
02-04-2012, 11:05 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
So ... this small OVF on the Q ... wouldn't that fit for the K-01 ?

JP
02-04-2012, 11:17 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Verglace Quote
A bad strategy, most camera customers aren't stuck with choosing k-01 or k-5, the ones that most likely are is a small part of the market (these are people heavily invested in k-mount lenses). The next update could take a year to happen, customers are most likely going to find alternatives, if they want an evf they will get an evf. If nikon/canon comes out with a similar product in 3-6 months, one that has an evf, then the head start pentax have could be wasted (look how close the Nikon 1 - sep 2011 and Pentax Q - june 2011 were released together, just 3 months).

Also when they release the k-5's successor, then release the k-01 successor/update (even if they are released at the same time), people will expect the new k-01 to be similar to the k-5's successor's specs just like how the k-01 and the k-5 are similar at the moment, if it isn't then people will just be disappointed and the bad reviews/comments/publicity flows in once again.

So in the end people will get disappointed anyway and Pentax once again will get bad reviews/comments for the products (look at whats happening here and whats happening in other sites like dpreview), and all this time Pentax is risking losing their first mover advantage.

The one thing companies should learn from the most successful company out there at the moment (Apple) is that they should not be afraid to cannibalize their own products if it means getting people to buy rather than have them look at the products of competitors. Apple were not afraid to cannibalize their iPods when they released the iPhone, the same for macbooks and ipod touch when they released the iPads.
I just perused a number of fashion/trends (non-photography) websites and blogs discussing the K-01. Very few of them mentioned the lack of an EVF. Outside the bubble of photography and photo enthusiasts that participate in online forums, they aren't missing them either on their iPhone and point-and-shoots.

If Pentax's goal with the K-01 was to win over photography enthusiasts, then I might agree with you. But I suspect that Pentax is aiming for a different audience. Why else, after all, would they hire an industry outsider to design the camera?

02-04-2012, 11:59 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
So ... this small OVF on the Q ... wouldn't that fit for the K-01 ?
It covers a 49 degree angle of view and only provides guide marks for the 8.5 mm Q kit prime lens, which translates to a focal length of 47mm in 35mm terms, or about 35mm I guess in APS-C (K-01) terms. So it could be useful.

But it is rather expensive (circa $250 USD).

So I guess on the K-01 it would be OK to use on something like the DAL 35 /2.4, or wider.
02-05-2012, 12:29 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It covers a 49 degree angle of view and only provides guide marks for the 8.5 mm Q kit prime lens, which translates to a focal length of 47mm in 35mm terms, or about 35mm I guess in APS-C (K-01) terms. So it could be useful.

But it is rather expensive (circa $250 USD).

So I guess on the K-01 it would be OK to use on something like the DAL 35 /2.4, or wider.
The FA 31mm is pretty much perfect at 47.12 equivalent.
02-05-2012, 03:05 AM   #22
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There are also external optical viewfinders from Olympus, Panasonic, Sony and even Leica and Sigma that would slot right into the K-01 hot shoe. Ricoh even has two external optical viewfinders available.

I think the Olympus one is cheapest at about $90.

But the problem with all of these is that they work best when matched with (usually wide) fixed focal length lenses. Change lens, or zoom your lens, and you lose the shot, or will need to mount another better matched external viewfinder.

Some of these external adapters will also have their field of view obstructed at the bottom of the frame by larger lenses that they may not be designed to be used with - eg the Sony external viewfinder is pretty much designed just for the NEX 16mm pancake lens. A bigger lens will block the bottom of your view.

Some of these external viewfinders also have framing marks only for the lenses they were designed to work with, and also the aspect ratios the camera was designed to support.

Getting an external EVF in some form, or just working with the rear display, may often end up being more practical.
02-05-2012, 06:41 AM   #23
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ratio

QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
So ... this small OVF on the Q ... wouldn't that fit for the K-01 ?

JP
yes but Q is 4x3 and k5/k-01 are 3x2, so even with right focal length wouldn't be 100% acurate

02-05-2012, 01:14 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Verglace Quote
The one thing companies should learn from the most successful company out there at the moment (Apple) is that they should not be afraid to cannibalize their own products if it means getting people to buy rather than have them look at the products of competitors. Apple were not afraid to cannibalize their iPods when they released the iPhone, the same for macbooks and ipod touch when they released the iPads.
You've drunk a bit too much of the Apple Kook-Aid if you think that they don't tier their products or think about product cannibalization. Apples not just a bunch of designers and engineers striving to make insanely great products without any interaction or feedback from Marketing or Product Development. Part of their brilliance is marketing, and making people pay more for what is sometimes less. Regarding your two examples:

iPods where on a flattening growth curve when the iPhone was released. Credit to them for realizing that the iPod was running out of steam and planning its replacement.

The most expensive iPod Touch is cheaper than the cheapest iPad. The most expensive iPad is less expensive than the cheapest Macbook. Coincidence? No, product strategy. You ever wonder why iPads don't have USB or HDMI ports like other tablets? Apple's smart enough to know that if they did that, people might start buying iPads instead of more profitable Macbooks.
02-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
This - either as a K-01 accessory or built-in - brings the K-01 closer to the K-5 in features and specs and current street price, and exposes Pentax to the risk of product cannibalization (people buying the cheaper K-01 instead of the K-5). I bet that there were plenty of discussion within Pentax as to whether include EVF support in the K-01 and technical, photographic, and marketing considerations were debated.

My guess, like others here, is that the next iteration of the APS-C mirrorless product line will incorporate EVF either as an accessory or built in, but only after Pentax has released a K-5 successor that is farther away in features, capabilities, and street price.
Sounds right to me. The introduction of the K-01 has me, for the first time I must admit, seriously looking at the MFT cameras on the market. I like Panasonic gear generally so I started there and find that they have several lines of cameras using the 4/3 format sensors - some with EVF and some without. They also offer an add on EVF for some of their cameras that have a dedicated attachment port just below the hot shoe for the HDMI connection to the viewfinder. This is after they have introduced a variety of lines with several models in most of those lines.
02-05-2012, 01:39 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Oh my! That is just a rangefinder external vf! Everything old is new again.

I guess I must have 21mm, 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 100mm, 135mm fl finders.

eBay will become more popular.
02-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #27
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Doesn't the K-5 have an OVF that everyone says is better than the best EVF on the planet ? So what is the problem ? Get the K-5 if you want an OVF for shooting stills and the K-01 if you want the best camera for HD video with K-mount lenses and have SR with all lenses.
02-05-2012, 01:59 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jogiba Quote
Doesn't the K-5 have an OVF that everyone says is better than the best EVF on the planet ? So what is the problem ? Get the K-5 if you want an OVF for shooting stills and the K-01 if you want the best camera for HD video with K-mount lenses and have SR with all lenses.
LOL! Seems like a lot of the criticism revolves around, "It's not a K-5 for $750!!!!"
02-05-2012, 02:18 PM   #29
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Why dont pentax bring out a product that has retro styling but is cheap compared to fuiji/olympous because they could bundle it without a viewfinder (they should base it on the LX) then an aluminium top plate should clip in where the EVF module would be, and you could buy the EVF as an optional extra, exactly the same styling as the default LX module. This would potentially make a high-end mirrorless affordable as the EVF would be optional but by no means 'add on', but more 'slot in'. It would need 3 primes, same as the new fuiji, but optimized for CDAF. They could keep the K mount and same dimensions to the LX. this would be the EVF!!
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02-05-2012, 02:21 PM   #30
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I suspect...

QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
If Pentax's goal with the K-01 was to win over photography enthusiasts, then I might agree with you. But I suspect that Pentax is aiming for a different audience. Why else, after all, would they hire an industry outsider to design the camera?
I suspect that you are correct. The younger and older crowds may prefer to shoot via the rear lcd versus a VF. I can see kids and old farts with K-01's and monopods taking over the parks.

I also really don't see the K-01 as a failed strategy. Pentax has the smallest and largest MILC cameras on the market now. I would imagine that they will fill the gaps in features with subsequent models. Rarely is the first model of anything a homerun. Look at the K-7 versus the K-5.
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