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02-11-2012, 05:18 AM   #91
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
All this is well and good but NO USE since the sensor is piece of crap. Even if Olympus gives a gold coin with their cameras they are useless as camera since the sensor in them is crippled.

With K-01 at least you have the sensor which is one of the best in today's time.
It is kind of sad. Olympus is a company with great history, but they don't make sensors. They have tied themselves to a company that has been seriously lagging when it comes to sensor technology. On the bright side, Pentax can buy sensors from anyone (except Canon I suppose) and so they can put the hottest new tech in their cameras (fingers crossed that full frame is coming this year).

02-11-2012, 05:56 AM   #92
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Well, Pentax is already releasing a new lens line - the XS line. And some of those lenses appear to not be compatible with DSLR cameras.

However, backward compatibility with DSLRs may be moot if Pentax intends to kill DSLRs - after all, their lenses have never promised backward compatibility with older camera bodies - only the new camera bodies are meant to be compatible with any older lenses. How can new DSLRs be compatible with XS lenses - only by not being made anymore.

I like this observation. How true it is remains to be seen. If Pentax starts throwing their weight behind XS designs, then I think the writing will be on the wall for DSLRs.
02-11-2012, 06:13 AM   #93
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Olympus is a company with great history, but they don't make sensors.
Same as Pentax, Nikon, Leica.

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
On the bright side, Pentax can buy sensors from anyone (except Canon I suppose) and so they can put the hottest new tech in their cameras
So does Olympus. They have used sensors from Kodak before using the Panasonic ones. And they are now using LiveMOS sensors because those are optimized for fast readout, which makes them more suitable for video use, as well as for use with an EVF. The sensor used in the E-M5 can achieve 120fps, which impacts LiveView fluidity as well as autofocus speed. And in continuous AF, they sample the sensor at 240fps. From my experience with Pentax DSLRs in LiveView mode, they were nowhere close to the performance of Olympus cameras - just read the LiveView section in your Pentax camera manual for all the limitations. It may not be a simple omission that the K-01 is lacking an EVF - they might simply not be able to build an effective one at this time. I'm afraid even the LiveView is inferior and only slightly improved compared to DSLRs.

Sensors are just one thing - that's why you don't buy them separately, but in a camera. It's the ability of the whole package to produce a picture that matters - like the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
02-11-2012, 06:16 AM   #94
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Are the xs lenses the ones that extend further into the body and would hit the mirror on a dslr? If so, setting the mount back would have helped there too. You could have used the same xs design but extended the shell further back (since you are using a set back mount). They would then be able to be mounted and used on a dslr without hitting the mirror (macro only due to the shorter flange distance) but they would have some compatibility (its better than nothing). Its not unheard of for people to get lenses that will only do macro. I doubt anyone would want to pay full new price for one with that limitation, but it might add to its resale value down the road as it increases the number of people that might be interested in it (its so compact, a super compact macro dslr could be desirable in certain cases and it matches well with pentax's small bodies).

02-11-2012, 06:18 AM   #95
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
I like this observation. How true it is remains to be seen. If Pentax starts throwing their weight behind XS designs, then I think the writing will be on the wall for DSLRs.
Either DSLRs are gone or compatibility is dead. There is also the option that no XS lenses will actually be made to extend into the body to the point where they would not be able to be used on DSLRs - so that will limit how much lens bulk can be hidden inside the camera body.
02-11-2012, 07:14 AM   #96
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
All this is well and good but NO USE since the sensor is piece of crap. Even if Olympus gives a gold coin with their cameras they are useless as camera since the sensor in them is crippled.

With K-01 at least you have the sensor which is one of the best in today's time.
I think IQ will be better than the Canon 7D, but not as good as the k-5. The original GH-1 sensor was within 1/2 of a stop of the 7D and better than the K-7. If the new sensor is the same one coming in the GH-3 then I expect it will be a pretty decent performer. The sensor is only about 1/2 of the equation when it comes to IQ. The GH series of cameras have sensors that handle the A/D conversion on sensor. The rest of the M4/3 cameras have traditional sensors where ADC is handled off sensor.

If Olympus can put a M4/3 camera on the market with specs that exceed the Canon 7D (which it appears that is what they are going for) they will have a very strong camera. Really fast AF, 9 FPS, weather sealed, small/compact, excellent IQ.
02-11-2012, 07:15 AM   #97
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This is getting out of hand the xs line seems to be the niche for the k01 series. Pentax has announced the da50 and da560 both compatible with the existing k mount dslr. The xs is for people who want the thinnest lens possible for the camera as for an adapter i think the issue would be allowing for af with existing lenses.

Im juat wondering if it was possible to make the mount zoom outward to the required distance for the k mount essentially having a extension tubed that is powered. You could save a fair bit of space. The biggest issue i can think of is the durability as you would be putting tension on the mount/motor when you put on the lens. Youd have to take up space around the mount to allow for the extra metal chunks but if i recall there isnt much there. The other issue is couldyou ensure the distance it extends out consistent.
02-11-2012, 07:35 AM   #98
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Same as Pentax, Nikon, Leica.



So does Olympus. They have used sensors from Kodak before using the Panasonic ones. And they are now using LiveMOS sensors because those are optimized for fast readout, which makes them more suitable for video use, as well as for use with an EVF. The sensor used in the E-M5 can achieve 120fps, which impacts LiveView fluidity as well as autofocus speed. And in continuous AF, they sample the sensor at 240fps. From my experience with Pentax DSLRs in LiveView mode, they were nowhere close to the performance of Olympus cameras - just read the LiveView section in your Pentax camera manual for all the limitations. It may not be a simple omission that the K-01 is lacking an EVF - they might simply not be able to build an effective one at this time. I'm afraid even the LiveView is inferior and only slightly improved compared to DSLRs.

Sensors are just one thing - that's why you don't buy them separately, but in a camera. It's the ability of the whole package to produce a picture that matters - like the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Maybe they should contact Kodak about making a new sensor, because the Panasonic ones are lagging and Sony doesn't seem interested in four thirds.

02-11-2012, 07:55 AM   #99
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QuoteOriginally posted by ripit Quote
Are the xs lenses the ones that extend further into the body and would hit the mirror on a dslr? If so, setting the mount back would have helped there too. You could have used the same xs design but extended the shell further back (since you are using a set back mount). They would then be able to be mounted and used on a dslr without hitting the mirror (macro only due to the shorter flange distance) but they would have some compatibility (its better than nothing). Its not unheard of for people to get lenses that will only do macro. I doubt anyone would want to pay full new price for one with that limitation, but it might add to its resale value down the road as it increases the number of people that might be interested in it (its so compact, a super compact macro dslr could be desirable in certain cases and it matches well with pentax's small bodies).
Just buy yourself some extension tubes for those XS lenses that comes into the mirror box and you've the same effect.

However the DA40XS works on DSLR so who knows about the other lenses.
The APS-C mirror is smaller then FF mirror so you do have some extra room in the housing already.
02-11-2012, 08:22 AM   #100
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The design of the K-01 especially with the XS lens that extend into the body will make the K-01 probably the best balanced mirrorless camera on the market. What good is having a small camera with a huge lens on it then add on an adapter to boot. I don't get that logic. As is the K-01 is a brilliant decision by Pentax. Even with a lack of a viewfinder or EVF. Funny I have seen many people using Fujifilms X100 camera on the street. One of the buying features of the X100 is the optical viewfinder. Of all the people I have seen using the X100 non of them were using the viewfinder all of them were using the LCD to frame their shots.

Not sure if any one suggested this earlier other than the last post mentioning the extension tubes but my first thought when everyone was clamoring that the new XS K-01 lenses made to extend into the body would not work and possibly damage a conventional DSLR, My first thought was Pentax could always make an adapter for these new lenses so they can be used on a DSLR. They could come with an adapter. Though these lenses are going to be optimized for the K-01 so I am not sure why you would want to use them on a DSLR.
02-11-2012, 08:37 AM   #101
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Not true. The software that Olympus ships with their cameras allows you to turn off all auto corrections. It's not a big deal. Works exactly as the Pentax software in this respect. See attached screenshot of controls available for distortion correction. There are similar controls for CA and other aspects.
Sorry? How was anything I said untrue? Olympus's own RAW converter is a lesser known converter, and it's default is Auto (correction).

You dismiss what I said by just saying it's "not a big deal", but that also doesn't make what I said untrue. Uncorrected micro 4/3 files will look considerably worse than uncorrected Pentax (or just SLR) files with a good lens. They need much less correction and correction is destructive. You may personally find the final result "good enough" but watch your edges, something you thought was in the frame might just be "corrected" out.
02-11-2012, 08:45 AM   #102
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Same as Pentax, Nikon, Leica.



So does Olympus. They have used sensors from Kodak before using the Panasonic ones. And they are now using LiveMOS sensors because those are optimized for fast readout, which makes them more suitable for video use, as well as for use with an EVF. The sensor used in the E-M5 can achieve 120fps, which impacts LiveView fluidity as well as autofocus speed. And in continuous AF, they sample the sensor at 240fps. From my experience with Pentax DSLRs in LiveView mode, they were nowhere close to the performance of Olympus cameras - just read the LiveView section in your Pentax camera manual for all the limitations. It may not be a simple omission that the K-01 is lacking an EVF - they might simply not be able to build an effective one at this time. I'm afraid even the LiveView is inferior and only slightly improved compared to DSLRs.

Sensors are just one thing - that's why you don't buy them separately, but in a camera. It's the ability of the whole package to produce a picture that matters - like the saying goes, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Are you so sure Olympus made their own EVF? What makes you think they just didn't buy the part from someone else like they did the sensor? Which I'm glad they did because before they finally upgraded to the G1X sensor for the OM-D, all of Olympus's m4/3 sensors were crap, and using your own analogy, that's the biggest weak link in the chain.
02-11-2012, 09:01 AM   #103
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
I think IQ will be better than the Canon 7D, but not as good as the k-5. The original GH-1 sensor was within 1/2 of a stop of the 7D and better than the K-7. If the new sensor is the same one coming in the GH-3 then I expect it will be a pretty decent performer. The sensor is only about 1/2 of the equation when it comes to IQ. The GH series of cameras have sensors that handle the A/D conversion on sensor. The rest of the M4/3 cameras have traditional sensors where ADC is handled off sensor.

If Olympus can put a M4/3 camera on the market with specs that exceed the Canon 7D (which it appears that is what they are going for) they will have a very strong camera. Really fast AF, 9 FPS, weather sealed, small/compact, excellent IQ.
It's word of fans. Nothing else. IQ of Canon 7D with good lens is outstanding.
Olympus has no such AF system as Canon has. Such AF is non-existent.
AF of Olympus is good, but AF of 7D is Better.

Pay attention that 7D is camera of 2009 year. OM-D is the upper limit of m4/3 from Olympus. Don't forget it. Never jump higher.
Canon, Nikon, Pentax and Sony will launch new cameras this year. On spring and at Photokina and OM-D will looк weaker in comparison. Rather ordinary.

Last edited by ogl; 02-11-2012 at 09:53 AM.
02-11-2012, 09:10 AM   #104
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
It is kind of sad. Olympus is a company with great history, but they don't make sensors. They have tied themselves to a company that has been seriously lagging when it comes to sensor technology. On the bright side, Pentax can buy sensors from anyone (except Canon I suppose) and so they can put the hottest new tech in their cameras (fingers crossed that full frame is coming this year).
I think "seriously lagging" is a bit strong. If you can't get a good picture out of one of their cameras, the problem is not the camera.
02-11-2012, 10:11 AM   #105
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
I think "seriously lagging" is a bit strong. If you can't get a good picture out of one of their cameras, the problem is not the camera.
Well, I personally would be dissatisfied if Pentax were still releasing cameras with the K20 sensor. Can you take good photos with one? Absolutely. And the K20 was a great camera. But tech moves amazingly fast. Maybe the sensor in the newest Olympus gets past that level, but up to this point, that seems to be the performance level where they have been stuck.

The big difference in my opinion is in low iso performance, where the current cameras with the Sony 16 megapixel cameras really do amazingly well.

I haven't seen any info on the newest Samsung sensor -- it maybe a lot better as well, but seems like Panasonic has lagged a fair amount.
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