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02-29-2012, 08:03 AM - 1 Like   #196
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QuoteOriginally posted by ibkc Quote
You guys with the extreme hostility towards this product - it's as if Pentax announced they were killing off their dSLR line and the Q, and this was going to be their only product besides a few point-and-shoots. But they didn't do that. It's just another camera; a camera for a different market (and not necessarily an "unserious photographer" market - gads, that criticism is starting to sound like a playground taunt - "You're getting a K-01? Tee hee hee, only girls and uncool kids got THOSE.")

Why the vitriol?
It is not hostility to be disappointed when the last two products introduced don't suit your needs. Many of us clamor for a 24x36mm sensor in a K-mount DSLR. Many of us have clamored for a very compact mirrorless body, but with more advanced features rather than a "designer" approach. Many of us have lenses we would like to see. The K-01 and the Q are not what we had hoped for. That does not mean they are the spawn of the devil. Heck, I might even get a K-01 some day, but Pentax doesn't usher out a new model often, and I don't think we should blame anyone for being disappointed that the last two models haven't really been in the direction many of us had hoped for.

It seems to me that while there has been some serious criticism of the camera, most of the personal vitriol is toward those who are critics of this camera. Everyone lighten up!

02-29-2012, 08:25 AM   #197
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
but Pentax doesn't usher out a new model often, and I don't think we should blame anyone for being disappointed that the last two models haven't really been in the direction many of us had hoped for.

This is the real problem Hoya has left some serious pent up demand out there and was glacier like in their approach. Take hear Gene in the big picture if you look at the number of announcements already from Pentax under Ricoh it's apparent things will be moving at a much quicker clip, we just need to give them time to get the plans moving
Photokina should be a damn good indicator of the future I would think (if all we see is a kr replacement in the spring and a k5 replacement at photokina and nothing else I think a lot of people will be hugely disappointed)
02-29-2012, 01:31 PM   #198
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Hi, i haven't posted much on this forum, but like to share my view on the k01. First what really baffles me is how anyone here can describe a camera as not being meant for serious photographers when it houses a k5 like sensor and is expected to have similar IQ. Isn't IQ what it is all about? don't we admire Leica for exactly that? obviously you can improve a camera with additional functionality, usability, etc. but in the end IQ will determine if a camera is suited for "serious photographers".

Second, this huge outcry regarding the lack of a viewfinder. have you guys actually ever used a good lcd screen? and i don't mean the one on a k-r or k5. those are crap even compared to the panny gf1. obviously, a viewfinder has its advantageous but so does a good lcd. many EVILs dont have a viewfinder built in and sell welland while there may be optional ones to get, i doubt they sell high volumes. at least i haven't seen lots of pens or gf cameras with viewfinder in real life. and btw, with a good lcd you can take great pictures even if it not tiltable. And this has also nothing to do with serious photography - in some cases you can frame a shot much better with LCD, e.g. when your subject is not on eye-level viewfinder shots tend to be from a too high angle.

For me, personally, i really like the camera. it could replace my k-r and panny gf1 and allow me to focus on one system. i fidn the design refreshing and did so from first encounter, but that is not the point. whether i will buy it or not will depend on two aspects: First, the AF speed. if it is on gf1 level, that would be sufficient for my taste. Second, the lcd screen, specifically the refresh rate. again, i will judge against my gf1. All given that the IQ is on k5 level.

sorry for spelling mistakes, posting on an ipad sucks
02-29-2012, 05:44 PM   #199
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QuoteOriginally posted by doozer Quote
Isn't IQ what it is all about?
Nope. Photography is about taking great images, not about what images you *could* take. All that sensor rankings do is measure the potential of a sensor. Whether you can fully realize that potential depends on many other aspects of the camera - metering, white balance, autofocus, controls, responsiveness. Talking about IQ and photography is similar to talking about the size of male genitalia and lovemaking.

02-29-2012, 06:12 PM   #200
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Nope. Photography is about taking great images, not about what images you *could* take. All that sensor rankings do is measure the potential of a sensor. Whether you can fully realize that potential depends on many other aspects of the camera - metering, white balance, autofocus, controls, responsiveness. Talking about IQ and photography is similar to talking about the size of male genitalia and lovemaking.
Agree. For example, the worst performing camera you can possibly have is one that you won't take with you!
02-29-2012, 08:42 PM   #201
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Agree. For example, the worst performing camera you can possibly have is one that you won't take with you!
Yes, this is one important aspect..

Another one is that IQ in itself is not a goal - the most memorable images are those that surprise us with their content and ideas and IQ needs to be just adequate for the delivery of that content. We cannot remember IQ - we remember captured scenes.

Here are some amusing examples of commentary driven by obsession with technical aspects:

Mario's Bike | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Some commentary on the above:

The Online Photographer: Cartier-Bresson Booted from Flickr

Tongue in cheek comments:

The Online Photographer: Great Photographers on the Internet

The Online Photographer: Great Photographers on the Internet, Part II

And here is a guy that I like to bring up when talk turns too much on the technical side - he was building his own equipment:

Laur's photo blog: Miroslav Tichy
03-01-2012, 05:04 AM   #202
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Nope. Photography is about taking great images, not about what images you *could* take. All that sensor rankings do is measure the potential of a sensor. Whether you can fully realize that potential depends on many other aspects of the camera - metering, white balance, autofocus, controls, responsiveness. Talking about IQ and photography is similar to talking about the size of male genitalia and lovemaking.
I don't believe this thread (or most of the others on Pentax Forum) are about photography. They are about photographic gear. They are about specs. They are about style and "what sells." They are about how Pentax should make "x" camera (a Fuji Pro, an Olympus OM-D, a Nikon D800) and not the camera that they are currently making.

Gear buying addiction is seldom driven by image quality concerns, but rather by specs. The photographer is often the weak link in the chain.

That said, the sensor in the K5 is pretty amazing. To me, the K5 is a slightly improved K7 with a new sensor. With that in mind, I found it much easier to take photos in many situations where I wouldn't have before. Are they masterpieces? No, but they are photos that I will keep and treasure because they are of my family. If the K-01 offers similar image quality, it will be a good deal for many people.
03-01-2012, 06:53 AM   #203
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I don't believe this thread (or most of the others on Pentax Forum) are about photography. They are about photographic gear. They are about specs. They are about style and "what sells." They are about how Pentax should make "x" camera (a Fuji Pro, an Olympus OM-D, a Nikon D800) and not the camera that they are currently making.

Gear buying addiction is seldom driven by image quality concerns, but rather by specs. The photographer is often the weak link in the chain......
True, but I think the prompting for that post by LC was a question about whether IQ isn't what it is all about. Image quality and quality of photograph are two different concepts, with the former being more about techs and specs.

03-01-2012, 07:27 AM - 1 Like   #204
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
True, but I think the prompting for that post by LC was a question about whether IQ isn't what it is all about. Image quality and quality of photograph are two different concepts, with the former being more about techs and specs.
But you have to admit that they are interconnected.

Just a little return to John's opening point: I have showed this camera's photo to non-photographers that I work with and they have universally felt like it was a "cool" camera. Most of them are camera phone people (a couple have bridge cameras), but a couple felt like it was interesting enough they wanted to look into buying it in the coming year.
03-01-2012, 10:29 AM   #205
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
And here is a guy that I like to bring up when talk turns too much on the technical side - he was building his own equipment:
So it's not about the gear. Yet we have dozens of pages complaining about the gear. I think I get it.
03-01-2012, 10:34 AM   #206
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
So it's not about the gear.
Yeah, it's about enjoying to use the gear.
03-01-2012, 10:37 AM   #207
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
So it's not about the gear. Yet we have dozens of pages complaining about the gear. I think I get it.
Exactly! It's not about the gear. That's why the discussions about the gear get so much more activity than the photo posting threads.
Wait.
Wut?

Now I'm confused..................



Full Disclosure: I have been going back-and-forth for the last two weeks about which camera to get next, to go along with my K20D. I've been studying high ISO RAW samples. I've narrowed my choices to K5, K-01, or Fuji x100.
Now that may not seem too unusual, but I haven't taken more than a dozen pictures in the last two months.
"Hello. My name is Jim, and I'm a gear junkie"

Last edited by Parallax; 03-01-2012 at 10:45 AM.
03-01-2012, 12:04 PM   #208
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I am in the same boat Parallax

Do I?

Buy K-5
Buy K-01
Buy Pentax Q & keep K200D?

At the moment I am leaning towards the K-5
03-01-2012, 01:17 PM   #209
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QuoteOriginally posted by jezza323 Quote
I am in the same boat Parallax

Do I?

Buy K-5
Buy K-01
Buy Pentax Q & keep K200D?

At the moment I am leaning towards the K-5
If you can swing the K-5 and plan to use it, fantastic. But, as an owner of both the K-5 and K200D, the older camera will still do right by you for some time to come, if you need to control costs.
03-01-2012, 03:20 PM   #210
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QuoteOriginally posted by Laurentiu Cristofor Quote
Nope. Photography is about taking great images, not about what images you *could* take. All that sensor rankings do is measure the potential of a sensor. Whether you can fully realize that potential depends on many other aspects of the camera - metering, white balance, autofocus, controls, responsiveness. Talking about IQ and photography is similar to talking about the size of male genitalia and lovemaking.
Ok so let me be more clear (and thanks for ignoring the rest of my post...): Obviously, technical image quality is only a part of what makes a great image - but as we are talking about the technical camera, please let us dismiss for a second the most important part, the skill of the photographer. Second, while I stated that the K5 sensor is in the camera as the reason for probably good technical IQ, metering, WB, etc. plays an important role, yes. But then again, those aspects were never part of the discussion here so far and actually I assume that Pentax won't mess them up completely (but we will see). Autofocus may too be a factor for many users, and as I do have stated, AF performance may be a deal braker for me personally (the videos so far look promising however, at least for my personal needs).

The criticism focused on functional aspects of the camera, especially the lack of a viewfinder, which, as some have stated, make it less suited for "serious photography". My point here is that from the technical point of view, I find this statement absurd given that the technical IQ (including WB, metering) will probably be very good based on our experience with the K5. For me this sometimes reads like that any serious photographer needs a viewfinder. And while I like my viewfinder very much, I call BS on that. That is just plain ignorant towards technical innovation. As I stated above, both viewfinders and LCD screens have pros/cons. And again, I have the strong feeling that many who critisize the lack of a viewfinder have never worked with a good and responsive LCD.

Finally, I'm sure that for some photographers the K-01 will not be the right tool. That is the case for every camera. And the reasons can be manifold, e.g. fast AF-C needed, more manual controls, and for some also the missing viewfinder, as this requires to change your style of taking pictures. But that doesn't mean that this is a camera "just for soccer moms or design freaks". If it is a tool that allows me to take great images, than the potential user community is much larger.

Ah one last point. It's really funny that another argument also is that Pentax is missing the point of a mirrorless camera. That really is a tech-geeky perspective. From a photographers point of view, I couldn't care less if my camera has a mirror or not, so I don't think "serious photographers" (and not tech-geeks) won't buy a camera that allows them to take great pictures if it doesn't fit the scheme mirrorless=small.
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