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02-08-2012, 12:58 AM   #136
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Not any more...

QuoteOriginally posted by Transit Quote
I quite believe it
I had reached the impression they were taught to be like that at architecture school.
Pete
Not any more. Can't afford to take your eye off the ball.

http://www.salon.com/2012/02/04/the_architecture_meltdown/

The work that I get comes from the 1%. I was always a bit ashamed of it when times were better. That was probably because the clients back then were much more abusive. Now I actually take a bit of pride in the fact that I can communicate with them and keep them from getting abusive. Believe it or not, some of the older-money types are a bit humbled these days. Some do need prodding to stay that way though. Of course I am talking about 1% of the 1%. The younger-money types are less humble and are more willing to be provocative. Currently, I am finding them to be higher maintenance than the older ones.

Also, as far as this thread goes, I see the Q, the K-01, and the GXR lying at three extremes for Pentax/Ricoh's forray into the MILC market. I think that Pentax/Ricoh is trying to discern the shape of the market, and these models help establish baselines. I am optimistic that as these lines develop they will develop into better products.


Last edited by lammie200; 02-08-2012 at 01:10 AM.
02-08-2012, 04:25 AM   #137
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Please. What are your credentials as a camera designer? Or as a passenger jet or car designer? Oh, you've used all those. So now you are qualified to design them all as working, distinctive products, within a specific budget, and while meeting a set of rigid parameters set by the client.
None whatsoever, which is why I wouldn't have the hubris to try to design any of the above. However, I have used cameras extensively, driven cars extensively and flown in jets extensively, and so while I wouldn't have a clue about how to design one, I do have a clue about how they should look.
By your logic, one can't be a good driver unless one can engineer a car, or be a good photographer unless one can design a camera.
Which is crap, and you know it.
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
It would be a mistake to assume Pentax Japan just wrote Newson a cheque, and then after a while he sent them a design for a new camera.
You are sure about this?
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Newson stated he worked with Pentax for over a year on this camera. There would have been lots of back-and-forth with Pentax throughout the evolution of the design, as he mentions himself. This would have involved innumerable discussions with Pentax mechanical engineers, electrical engineers ('I want a small battery - oh, OK I have to use the existing D-LI90 battery. I can work with that'), designers ('OK, so you don't want a viewfinder in this'), materials specialists ('I want to use anodised aluminium for the body top plate - can you do that?'), assembly process specialists, cost accountants etc. He was overseeing the design, but he had to rely on the input of lots of Pentax people to make it happen. The camera has his signature on it, but it was a partnership with Pentax. It couldn't have been any other way.
And from the sounds of it, you were beside him every step of the way.
QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote

LOL. Self-importance much. Probably the last people Pentax would want to listen to would be the people on this forum. People here have complained no-end about the the K-x, the Q, and the K-5, as if they were the worst cameras in the world. Why would Pentax listen to PFF about the K-01? Most of the time the forum conducts itself like a lynch mob.
If you cut through the chaff, there is often very good constructive criticism of the equipment on this forum.
While it's fairly obvious that Pentax doesn't listen overly much to their user base, a company ignores it's userbase at it's own peril. The company I work for listens to it's customers by inviting them to do online surveys, and we get a lot of very good feedback from these surveys.
By listening to our customers, we can make adjustments to our product line, and our service schedules, bringing what we do more and more in line with the needs of our customers.
This is how smart companies do business.
Dumb companies think they can operate in a vacuum and stay in business.
02-08-2012, 04:37 AM   #138
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
I still can't see how people can claim this. Even on the basic visuals of it, without even hand-holding it, it is immediately apparent that the design is simple, uncluttered and easy to 'grok'.

Transitioning from the K-x to the K-5 was quite tricky for me because of all those extra teeny-weeny buttons and switches (some with quite an awkward to use resistance due to the WR gaskets and their small size) on the back and top interface of the K-5 (especially the green button!, which on the K-x and K200D work really well up top and well spaced away from the other controls).

Attachment 117107

Even for a newbie to Pentax, the K-01 looks like a snap to figure out and to work with.
To read the OP's assertion, you would think that Newson just pitched everything Pentax and freelanced his own camera. The reality is that it is different from predecessors, but many of the buttons/layout features lie in similar patterns to older cameras. The K5 certainly isn't perfect, as anyone who has used it would know. I am comfortable with it now, but the K10/K20 were a lot simpler to pick up and just start using -- not nearly so "fiddly" a design.
02-08-2012, 05:45 AM   #139
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
And from the sounds of it, you were beside him every step of the way.
I just paid attention to what he said in the various interviews he gave, where he discussed how he had worked closely with Pentax in the design of the camera. The examples I used were mentioned by him - the battery size, the viewfinder, the use of anodised aluminium. Etc.

He was not out on a lark of his own on this project.

02-08-2012, 05:51 AM - 1 Like   #140
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
However, I have used cameras extensively, driven cars extensively and flown in jets extensively, and so while I wouldn't have a clue about how to design one, I do have a clue about how they should look.

So, how should a car look? Like a Honda Accord? An S2000? An Element? You seem to imply there's only one right answer. Which is it?
02-08-2012, 05:57 AM   #141
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
So, how should a car look? Like a Honda Accord? An S2000? An Element? You seem to imply there's only one right answer. Which is it?
You've just named the last three cars in our household!
02-08-2012, 06:18 AM - 1 Like   #142
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I don't know why Pentaxforumers beat themselves silly discussing to death that they know better than the other guy especially over something as subjective as design. One man's meat is another man's poison... so if you cannot come to terms with what Marc Newson has designed, then shut the f--- up, don't buy the K-01 and spend your money on something else. What's the point of being so opinionated when it won't change one iota Pentax's plans for this camera. Like as if they will listen to anonymous nobodies who probably don't have the means to buy but need to get their design discomfort angst off their chests. Seriously, if I were Pentax, I'd say "who gives a shit about a these guys, there are plenty others who'll buy this camera."

I used the K-01 up close and I didn't have any issue using it. Neither did my fellow Singapore Pentax users who played around with it. It is an easy camera to use. Instead of overthinking about the supposed design flaws, perhaps it would be better to put that mental effort into making better pictures. Go out and shoot people...
02-08-2012, 06:48 AM   #143
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
i don't know why pentaxforumers beat themselves silly discussing to death that they know better than the other guy especially over something as subjective as design. One man's meat is another man's poison... So if you cannot come to terms with what marc newson has designed, then shut the f--- up, don't buy the k-01 and spend your money on something else. What's the point of being so opinionated when it won't change one iota pentax's plans for this camera. Like as if they will listen to anonymous nobodies who probably don't have the means to buy but need to get their design discomfort angst off their chests. Seriously, if i were pentax, i'd say "who gives a shit about a these guys, there are plenty others who'll buy this camera."

i used the k-01 up close and i didn't have any issue using it. Neither did my fellow singapore pentax users who played around with it. It is an easy camera to use. Instead of overthinking about the supposed design flaws, perhaps it would be better to put that mental effort into making better pictures. Go out and shoot people...
+1000000 !!!

02-08-2012, 06:54 AM   #144
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Go out and shoot people...
Don't tempt 'em!
02-08-2012, 07:06 AM   #145
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QuoteOriginally posted by TaoMaas Quote
Don't tempt 'em!
Ahem, go out and photograph people...
02-08-2012, 07:36 AM   #146
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QuoteOriginally posted by Opethian Quote
One thing is for sure, the K-01 is such a popular camera that it is dividing the Pentax camp between the serious photographers, and the... umm.. not so serious.

I'm one of those who supports it, regardless if it fails every test out there about design. For what it is, I personally can see myself using it. Not as my main camera though.
Careful. Define serious photgrapher. What if a "serious" photgrapher buys a K-01?

Or am I just a dilettante?
02-08-2012, 07:47 AM   #147
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
I don't know why Pentaxforumers beat themselves silly discussing to death that they know better than the other guy especially over something as subjective as design. One man's meat is another man's poison... so if you cannot come to terms with what Marc Newson has designed, then shut the f--- up, don't buy the K-01 and spend your money on something else. What's the point of being so opinionated when it won't change one iota Pentax's plans for this camera. Like as if they will listen to anonymous nobodies who probably don't have the means to buy but need to get their design discomfort angst off their chests. Seriously, if I were Pentax, I'd say "who gives a shit about a these guys, there are plenty others who'll buy this camera."

I used the K-01 up close and I didn't have any issue using it. Neither did my fellow Singapore Pentax users who played around with it. It is an easy camera to use. Instead of overthinking about the supposed design flaws, perhaps it would be better to put that mental effort into making better pictures. Go out and shoot people...
In an interview Mark Newson said, quite literally, [paraphrased], "I don't listen to consumers. They trap me in the past. I want to design things that already are where we will be in the future . . ."
02-08-2012, 08:07 AM   #148
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QuoteOriginally posted by monochrome Quote
Careful. Define serious photgrapher. What if a "serious" photgrapher buys a K-01?

Or am I just a dilettante?
Pro photographers and serious enthusiasts are people too ! They have lives and familys just like anyone else.
We all like to take snapshots ocasionly that are just that, without people judging them because of who you are. Its not that a serious photographer cant buy a K1, more a case of its unlikely to be bought for serious use.
Not impossable.... just most unlikely
02-08-2012, 08:27 AM   #149
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
Pro photographers and serious enthusiasts are people too ! They have lives and familys just like anyone else.
We all like to take snapshots ocasionly that are just that, without people judging them because of who you are. Its not that a serious photographer cant buy a K1, more a case of its unlikely to be bought for serious use.
Not impossable.... just most unlikely
IIRC back in the day an XA was just such a device for serious photographers

If my tone was defensive, my apologies. We're all serious at whatever level of skill and experience we currently possess. For many, though they want to produce serious, quality images (and video), a dSLR is overkill.

The K-01 can match the tool to the skill level. Some will progress, most probably won't, but its an untapped market.
02-08-2012, 08:46 AM   #150
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Though we haven't seen many images from it yet, I keep thinking that the K-01 is a bit of a throw-back to the Pentax philosophy of old where they used to eliminate certain features in order to produce an extremely capable image-making machine at a very competitive price...as in the 6X7 and 645 where Pentax opted not to include interchangeable backs or use lenses with leaf shutters. It looks to me like Pentax kept the two most important pieces of the puzzle (the sensor and the lenses), then asked themselves how many features they could eliminate in order to lower costs.
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