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02-09-2012, 06:35 AM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
And it amazes me how passionately people are jumping to the defence of Pentax not matter what.

I think I made it clear that my motivation for writing critical posts is a passion for Pentax as a company. So we should all be in the same boat, right?

Rational thinking would suggest that anyone who has constructive criticism to offer that may lead to improvements should be valued. But in reality, often critical remarks are stamped as being "negative" and posters are told to STFU. Where's that vitriol coming from?


I want all Pentax products to be great, whether I am a potential customer or not. I would not have bought the K-01 even if it had come with an EVF and better design, but I would have felt a lot better for Pentax if it had.

Why? Because here it comes again, from you this time, the advice "Don't buy this one". That's exactly the conclusion many people will arrive at, some of which who may have bought a different K-01. That's what I don't want.

Hey, if the K-01 will open up a market for Pentax exactly because the K-01 does not satisfy all of Rams' design rules, that'll be fine for me! As long as Pentax continues to be serious about the ergonomics of their DSLRs, I personally don't care so much what K-01 users must do to get their pictures.

I'm just a bit concerned that
  • the K-01 won't be that new magnet for new customers.
  • the K-01 will repel some people who would have considered a different K-01.
  • Pentax may lose its ergonomics plot even for cameras I'm personally interested in.

the thing is everyone is reading into a design the future of Pentax under ricoh. this design wasn't even a ricoh project but a hoya one that should have arrived last year.
I highly doubt the dslr line ergonomics will be crippled just because this camera came out. Until later this spring we won't see the first Ricoh product (Kr replacement) and the truly ergonomic model the K5 won't see a replacement until Photokina (along with I'm pretty sure some additional models). these will be more reflective of Ricoh's ideas.
he K-01 is the big brother to the Q . People hated the Q at first yet it sold respectably enough that they have announced more lenses coming (if it was a total failure my guess is that would not happen)
K-01 will find it's place in the market. It may not move the same numbers as an apl3 or a nex 3 but I'm sure it will move reasonable units. I'm also pretty sure there will be additional mirrorless in the lineup including ones for the enthusiast crowd like us
As for Fugly, actually the more i look at it the more i like it, same with the Q
If the K-01 was 699 kit it would probably get less grief than it is at 899. I actually think by summer/fall it will be 699-749 or so kitted once the Kr replacement drops into the market

02-09-2012, 06:35 AM   #182
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QuoteOriginally posted by riff Quote
Buy some shares too.

How many days and how many threads are needed because you are frustrated?
Well, we would not have much of a forum if we all sat around moaning with pleasure about new products until the next person said "I'll have what (s)he's having." The same would be true if every post asked for the designer's head on a pike. Boring after a while.
02-09-2012, 06:48 AM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote


Here's my take on Ram's principles and the K-01...

Is innovative - The possibilities for innovation are not, by any means, exhausted. Technological development is always offering new opportunities for innovative design. But innovative design always develops in tandem with innovative technology, and can never be an end in itself.
From a technology perspective, this is the first mirrorless camera to incorporate the lens mount from a dSLR, so Newson is treading new ground here. The result is distinctive and unlike other designs. It is not simply derivative of a dSLR, or derivative of other established camera forms (rangefinder, film slr, or new small-registration mirrorless).
PASS

Makes a product useful - A product is bought to be used. It has to satisfy certain criteria, not only functional, but also psychological and aesthetic. Good design emphasizes the usefulness of a product whilst disregarding anything that could possibly detract from it.
The general form is very thick and rectangular. Owners of Micro Four-Thirds cameras like the Panasonic GF2, E-PM1, and various Sony NEX cameras have often complained of difficulties holding the thin, rectangular form. The bulky form of the K-01 incorporates a subtle grip and a textured rubber surface to address these issues. Additionally, the thickness of the camera provides a big enough base to place a hand underneath for additional support.

Controls have been minimized to the ones most valuable to the target user group. From the top, the main controls are in contrasting colors to the top plate to draw attention to themselves. The mode dial, clearly the most information-dense and potentially confusing part of the camera for newer photographers, has been offset from the other controls to aid legibility and so as not to appear overly complicated.

The rear panel is similarly minimized to only the basic controls.
PASS

Is aesthetic - The aesthetic quality of a product is integral to its usefulness because products are used every day and have an effect on people and their well-being. Only well-executed objects can be beautiful.
The design is streamlined, minimalistic, simplified, and decidedly devoid of stylistic "flourishes" (like the faux prism of the Olympus OMD, for example).
PASS

Makes a product understandable - It clarifies the product’s structure. Better still, it can make the product clearly express its function by making use of the user's intuition. At best, it is self-explanatory.
The overall simplicity of the camera aids comprehension and usability for the target audience. The oft-derided "stove pipe" even has purpose - to draw attention to the Mode Dial, which is the first control that should be checked when turning the camera on, and it's prominence implies that changing the dial changes the internal functioning of the camera profoundly, which it does.
PASS

Is unobtrusive - Products fulfilling a purpose are like tools. They are neither decorative objects nor works of art. Their design should therefore be both neutral and restrained, to leave room for the user's self-expression.
The yellow is bright, but the other colors are subdued. People that want to make a statement may choose the yellow. Others can choose the more subtle colors and not draw attention to themselves.
PASS

Is honest - It does not make a product more innovative, powerful or valuable than it really is. It does not attempt to manipulate the consumer with promises that cannot be kept.
It does not make any pretend to be an expensive dSLR or a cheap point and shoot, or anything in between.
PASS

Is long-lasting - It avoids being fashionable and therefore never appears antiquated. Unlike fashionable design, it lasts many years – even in today's throwaway society.
It is neither overtly "retro" (i.e., Fuji) or self-consciously futuristic (i.e., NEX 7)
PASS

Is thorough down to the last detail - Nothing must be arbitrary or left to chance. Care and accuracy in the design process show respect towards the consumer.
The front contains the brand logo, the camera model, and a subtle SR tag to denote image stability. The bottom contains a subtle signature of the designer. Otherwise it bereft of marketing tags that plague other cameras. The GH2, for example, contains the brand (Panasonic), model line (Lumix, in 2 places, and stylized L in 1 place), model name (in 2 places), sensor format name (Micro Four-Thirds), memory card format (SDHC), and two tags describing the video capabilities ("AVCHD" and "FullHD")
PASS

Is environmentally friendly - Design makes an important contribution to the preservation of the environment. It conserves resources and minimizes physical and visual pollution throughout the lifecycle of the product.
N/A

Is as little design as possible - Less, but better – because it concentrates on the essential aspects, and the products are not burdened with non-essentials. Back to purity, back to simplicity.
The only notable design flourishes are the "stove pipe" and the yellow version. The "stove pipe", as described earlier, helps to offset the important and complex Mode dial away from the other control and to draw attention to it's importance in the operation of the camera.
PASS

There, that's better.
Well done John.

Thing is Designs like this challenge preconceptions. It's much easier to sell people designs they feel comfortable with (Trad SLR, and Faux Retro for example)
While i like some of the retro like the Fuji ( I am after all old enough that it appeals to me on a core level from my youth) In general I appreciate clean design and this is a clean design. It may also end up as a classic design time is the determinant there.
I haven't shown it to any friends in the artistic community yet but i'm guessing some will love it and i can think of at least 1 who may buy it for her work (she currently uses a P&S because it's simpler and she doesn't want complexity in her tools (she uses the images as par of quite large multimedia works) but i know she would like something with better quality - the G12 with all the more manual enthusiast design for a P&S was actually more complicated than she wanted )
02-09-2012, 07:05 AM   #184
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QuoteQuote:
The PENTAX K-01 was developed in line with Mr. Newson's three design themes - TIMELESS, TRUSTY and TOUCHABLE.
Not bad considering Mr. Newsone only claims to have used three design themes.

QuoteQuote:
Immaculate, tasteful design by Marc Newson, The contemporary, timeless design of the PENTAX K-01's body consists of neat, straight lines to optimize both functionality and visual attractiveness. Original-design push buttons and control levers are efficiently laid out across the body, while brilliant colours are used on two key buttons for instant recognition: red for the video recording button, and green for the functional green button. The mode dial and the power switch are made of high-quality aluminum alloy, while the memory card slot and connectors on the comfortable, easy-to-hold grip are covered with protective rubber. Marc Newson's original design scheme is evident in all elements of the K-01, including the product logo, the camera strap (included) and even the start-up screen that comes on when the K-01's power is turned on.
The thing with "design prinicples" is they can be interpreted, allowing an interpreter to put thier own biases ahead of the actual conformity to the principle.

Quote above from the henry's pre-order page.

02-09-2012, 04:08 PM   #185
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FWIW I just got my K-5 back from CRIS - the lens release button had fallen off. The K-01 was released in the interim. While it was away I toyed with my wife's K-x as well as a Panasonic GH2 and GF2. When I opened the box and pulled the K-5 from the packing peanuts, it was like taking it out for the first time again. The K-5 is little tank. It fits great in the hand and it just feels so dense. I don't think I've handled a modern dSLR that feels like this. Kudos to the K-7/K-5 designers!

And then I thought about the K-01 and thought, "It's going to be smaller than this? Wow." I hope it's got the same solidity and denseness that the K-5 has. If so, it could be a seriously neat little thing. I know one thing - the K-5 is setting a high haptic benchmark...
02-09-2012, 04:48 PM   #186
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
Did you see Marc Newson's Ford concept car? I showed it to my friend (we're both into cars) and he's like "close that shit" after about 2 seconds



I'd never buy a camera because it looks good, but I wouldn't but one if it looks bad. The K-01 looks OK if you ask me- nowhere near as disastrous as that car!
This looks like Apple designed a Trabant.
02-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #187
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QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
What a great idea. It is an epiphany of some sort. Let us all blindly buy Pentax gears even the ones we don't like so that our beloved company will do so well.
Isn't that how capitalism works? Companies operate to make money. More sales means more profits. If you don't like, then don't buy... or is that concept too mind boggling for you?
02-09-2012, 05:12 PM   #188
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Isn't that how capitalism works? Companies operate to make money. More sales means more profits. If you don't like, then don't buy... or is that concept too mind boggling for you?
+1.

I don't recall Pentax/Ricoh forcing anyone to buy anything they don't want to purchase.

UPDATE: I just double-checked my email and I can confirm that I haven't received any harassing letters from Pentax suggesting I have to buy the K-01 to help them become more profitable.

02-10-2012, 04:14 AM   #189
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
I appreciate creativity, skill, effort and passion even if I don't personally like the piece. A triangle on a blank canvas is not and never will be art, and I think it's insulting to those with passion and talent. There simply are things I've seen hanging in a museum that a 5 year old can do better, perhaps because it's still fun for them, they're expressing themselves and they're not trying to be too clever(and failing miserably).
Every single thing you said there has always been used as a criticism of modern art by those whose expectations are for literal works. If you really want to understand that kind of work and move beyond your conditioning and preconceptions then perhaps you could consider reading a few art books. Whilst I understand your position I can't agree with it at all. Visual communication involves more than images and in painting, the image is only part of the deal.
02-10-2012, 04:24 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by FullertonImages Quote
Ahhh, commas change everything...

Stop clubbing, baby seals!
I suppose your wit would differ if it was you being clubbed to death.
02-10-2012, 04:34 AM   #191
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QuoteOriginally posted by bossa Quote
I suppose your wit would differ if it was you being clubbed to death.
There are many comma jokes out there. The most famous is "Eats, shoots, and leaves." The focus isn't on the statement but on the commas.
02-10-2012, 07:48 AM   #192
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Sigh.
I wish there was a way to sage in forums like VB. This thread needs to sink out of view.
02-10-2012, 08:24 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by rawr Quote
Sigh.
I wish there was a way to sage in forums like VB. This thread needs to sink out of view.
+ 1 lol
It started with intresting points of veiws and thoughts
and grew into fanatical claptrap
02-10-2012, 08:28 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by westmill Quote
+ 1 lol
It started with intresting points of veiws and thoughts
and grew into fanatical claptrap
You've just described every discussion on the Internet.
02-10-2012, 08:35 AM   #195
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QuoteOriginally posted by johnmflores Quote
You've just described every discussion on the Internet.
At least no one has been compared to Hitler yet.
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